Identification of a royal (family) with a Kris

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by Jonno

Hello,

Here is an original old picture of an indonesian royal family.
Can someone help me to indentify the royal with the kris?

Thanks,
John

Hullo John!

A bit LATE, but I hope it's still of use to somebody.
The photos are of Pangéran Radén Adipati Aria PrawiraDiradja II (regent, Keboepatén Tjiandjoer, 1861-1910) and family.

Best,

[jagabuwana]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo John!

A bit LATE, but I hope it's still of use to somebody.
The photos are of Pangéran Radén Adipati Aria PrawiraDiradja II (regent, Keboepatén Tjiandjoer, 1861-1910) and family.

Best,

I thought this initially too. But I am now skeptical. I don't think Prawiradireja II was ever this portly a man. Attached is probably one of the younger photos we have of him. I don't believe it's the same man as the one in the original post.

The photo appears to be in the Tropenmuseum's collection as item TM-60025948 with the description "Regent van Serang-Bantam (1888) met Familie". See: https://collectie.wereldculturen.nl/...9-31638051b632

According to wikipedia, the regent of Serang in 1888 was R. T. Soetadiningrat Murwan. I cannot find a better source than this, and there doesn't appear to be any other photos to corroborate. But I am confident that it is not the Regent of Cianjur.

I have posted other photos of Prawiradirja II in this thread here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24136

If it is true that we're looking at different people, the keris dress - especially the handle - bears similarities. It is a pistol grip shape, though the angled portion is quite short. I wonder if this was in style at the time for Sundanese regents.

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by jagabuwana

I thought this initially too. But I am now skeptical. I don't think Prawiradireja II was ever this portly a man. Attached is probably one of the younger photos we have of him. I don't believe it's the same man as the one in the original post.

The photo appears to be in the Tropenmuseum's collection as item TM-60025948 with the description "Regent van Serang-Bantam (1888) met Familie". See: https://collectie.wereldculturen.nl/...9-31638051b632

According to wikipedia, the regent of Serang in 1888 was R. T. Soetadiningrat Murwan. I cannot find a better source than this, and there doesn't appear to be any other photos to corroborate. But I am confident that it is not the Regent of Cianjur.

I have posted other photos of Prawiradirja II in this thread here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24136

If it is true that we're looking at different people, the keris dress - especially the handle - bears similarities. It is a pistol grip shape, though the angled portion is quite short. I wonder if this was in style at the time for Sundanese regents.

Hullo jagabuwana!

You are correct.
My apologies to everybody.
I should’ve been more thorough.
I got the name from two separate websites, so I thought it was OK.
Anyway, I had to dig into my archives.

Your first ref. only mentions Bantam 1888.
So here are my likely candidates:

Lebak:RA SoetaNataNingrat (1881-1907)

PandéGelang:RT SoetaDiNingrat (1870-1888)
RT Abdoel Gafoer SoeraWinangoen (1888-1898)

Sérang:RT Pandji GondoKoesoemo (1870-1888)
RT SoetaDiNingrat (Moerwan)(1888-1893)

I am posting a photo of a Banten boepati taken around 01/01/1888-31/12/1907. Could it be him? Unfortunately, no names.

I am also posting a photo taken in 1901 of PaRahyangan boepatis:

L->R:
• PgA SoeriaAtmadja - Soemedang,30/12/1882-17/04/1919
• RAA WiraTanoeDatar VIII - Limbangan Garoet, 16/07/1871-06/09/1913
• RAA PrawiraDiRadja II - TjiAndjoer, 24/08/1864-10/12/1912
• RAA WiraAdiNingrat - SoekaPoera (ManonDjaja), 29/11/1875-31/01/1901
• RT MartaNagara - Bandoeng, 27/06/1893-19/03/1920

Best,

[jagabuwana]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo jagabuwana!

You are correct.
My apologies to everybody.
I should’ve been more thorough.
I got the name from two separate websites, so I thought it was OK.
Anyway, I had to dig into my archives.

Your first ref. only mentions Bantam 1888.
So here are my likely candidates:

Hello kang Amuk. No apologies necessary

Looks like my link just takes you back to the source page of the page I really intended to reference. But if you click on the photo, it will take you to a page with more details and it says "Regent van Serang-Bantam (1888) met Familie".

Thank you for sharing those photos. I'm always fascinated by the variation of style in both clothing and keris across the different Sunda regencies, in the same period. The difference between the keris dress of Prawiradireja II and Wiradiningrat really sticks out - the former with what appears to be a Solo gayaman wrangka and the latter with one that might not be of a style from Java. Though they did seem to agree on wearing it nganggar style, which I think became known to be common in Sunda when keris are worn.

I think it's insightful and goes to show that there was no central or higher cultural authority in Sunda to codify conventions and customs. I think Sumedang Larang probably thought they had a claim to this given their history with the fall of Pajajaran but by the time they were all vassalised by Mataram it seems that Javanese style became that which was associated with high culture and a refined elite. The exception to this is perhaps the advances in the arts that are attributed Prawiradireja II's father, Kusumaningrat, who thanks to his patronage created a style of music that is now probably one of Sunda culture's most recognisable artefact - tembang Sunda.

It is a shame that we know so little detail about Sundanese court art, dress and conventions from before Sunda fell to Banten, especially where the keris is concerned.

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody!

I am confident that the person in post#1 is RTPandji GondoKoesoemo.
The reason I was hesitant was that the photo in my post#25 (RT SoetaDiNingrat) looked similar.
It turns out that SoetaDiNingrat was the nephew of GondoKoesoemo (photo attached).

Best,