Markings on a Takouba-mounted European Backsword

[blue lander]

I'm not sure if that last character is a poorly stamped A or M, but up close it looks like it might be something else altogether.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by blue lander

I'm not sure if that last character is a poorly stamped A or M, but up close it looks like it might be something else altogether.

I think it's an M but the stamp wasn't fully flat. Could be wrong.

[blue lander]

I'm still cleaning the pommel off but so far it looks a lot like the Pommel on the one Ian posted above

[Iain]

Originally Posted by blue lander

I'm still cleaning the pommel off but so far it looks a lot like the Pommel on the one Ian posted above

Yes, its a very standard design and one I think of as solidly 19th century to best of what we know.

It's defined by the peaked mid ridge, often the use of a small bronze cap and engraved lateral plate.

A transition from the oldest rounded pommels.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Are there any examples of the type of stamp used by European and African Smiths? ....It occurred to me that the Europeans used stamps but the African style looks like one chisel and mallet combination only...not stamps...and or...that African work was often scratched on. not stamped. It also looks like European letters had the small tails at the ends of uprights but African capitals did not. Am I right in thinking that European work was stamped whilst the blade was hot...and not a method used by African smiths...resulting in mis strikes and less depth to the strike??

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Are there any examples of the type of stamp used by European and African Smiths? ....It occurred to me that the Europeans used stamps but the African style looks like one chisel and mallet combination only...not stamps...and or...that African work was often scratched on. not stamped. It also looks like European letters had the small tails at the ends of uprights but African capitals did not. Am I right in thinking that European work was stamped whilst the blade was hot...and not a method used by African smiths...resulting in mis strikes and less depth to the strike??

The style of letters in use in European stamps depends entirely on region, date, etc. There's no standard rule about "tails".

Missed strikes and depth are down to how much care, attention and force is being used. Keep in mind the sort of blade we are looking at here is of a munitions standard, widely produced and exported for a range of types as nicely illustrated by Tordenskiold1721. These were made in bulk in forges using water powered trip hammers, grinding wheels etc. and it was very much an industry turning out a very high volume of product.

While it is my understanding that certain European proof marks were stamped cold, usually blade stamps of the age we are looking at were applied hot.

Personally I think that some stamps were used in an African context due to the appearance of certain marks on blades that are of inferior quality and likely to be locally made. If you want to browse http://takouba.org/catalog/index.php...moon-stamps/24 you'll find plenty of material in terms of comparing many swords with the same motif but some are obviously done in Europe and others in an African context.

I haven't done an exhaustive comparison of the details myself as my interests have generally been on other aspects. But to put it simply, I think some stamps, perhaps even sourced from Europe were around in local blade making centers in Africa like Sokoto, Kano etc. Outside of that engraving is more common and you will see this (again if we use the half moons as an example) quite often being used to imitate actual stamps.

[Tordenskiold1721]

The blade could also be from a Dussack Ca 1570/80.

[blue lander]

I should mention the upper half of this sword is double edged. This might be an alteration made in Africa but it seems to me it was made this way.

Another unusual feature is the fuller at the bottom of the ricosso. I don't recall seeing any other backswords with a fuller there.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by blue lander

I should mention the upper half of this sword is double edged. This might be an alteration made in Africa but it seems to me it was made this way.

Another unusual feature is the fuller at the bottom of the ricosso. I don't recall seeing any other backswords with a fuller there.

I would be pretty confident the second edge was done locally. I've seen this on other backsword blades in takouba mounts.