Rare topo from Flores

Sajen · 25th May 2012, 11:25 PM

This rare topo from Flores just ended by ebay. It is the first example I have seen since I collect. It seems to be an old and real one, the blade is laminated and is comply with the description and picture in A. G. van Zonneveld on page 129.

Just get the information from the seller that this piece is collected before 1900.

Here the pictures.

Sajen · 26th May 2012, 11:10 AM

After some research in the database from the Leiden museum I found out that the local name from this sword type is PEDA.

Sajen · 5th June 2012, 07:00 PM

Over 200 views and not one comment?

VVV · 5th June 2012, 09:13 PM

OK Detlef, I will give it a try.

I am a bit skeptical to it being 100 years based on those few (handful!) old ones I have seen all had much better blades. However, all the recent ones I have seen have this kind of poorly made and thin blade.
Also the handle makes me hesitate a bit. But that is just a hunch...

Michael

Sajen · 5th June 2012, 09:31 PM

Hello Michael,

the blade is nearly 9 mm thick and laminated but badly over polished maybe to polish out corrosion!

But you are correct, the blade detract the overall impression. it will be some work to make the lamination visible again.
The seller is very serious and the source from where he get it and so the age believable. But don't worry, your comment is very welcome and a critical comment is better as no comment!

What bother you by the handle?

I will try to get further informations from the seller.

Best regards,

Detlef

VANDOO · 5th June 2012, 09:45 PM

I HAVE BEEN RELUCTANT TO JUMP IN AND A BIT LAZY AS WELL WAITING FOR SOMEONE ELSE WITH MORE KNOWLEGE TO JUMP IN.
I LOOKED THRU VAN ZONNEVELDS BOOK AND DID NOT SEE ANYTHING EXACTLY LIKE THIS SWORD AND DIDN'T FIND TOPO OR PEDA LISTED UNDER FLORES. THE CLOSEST I CAME WAS ON PAGE 33 THE BELIDA THE ONES IN THE BOOK HAVE THE VERY FANCY GRIP AND PROVIDE ROOM FOR A TWO HANDED GRIP IF DESIRED. YOUR EXAMPLE HAS A VERY SIMPLE HANDLE WITH THE CURVE AND PERHAPS ROOM FOR A TWO HANDED GRIP? THE BLADE IS ABOUT THE SAME SO PERHAPS THIS IS A LATER AND SIMPLER MODEL OF THE OLD FORM OF BELIDA. FOR EXAMPLE THE PHILIPPINE PIRA OF TODAY HAS LITTLE RESEMBLENCE TO THE OLD ONES EXCEPT THE BLADES ARE STILL SIMULAR. NICE SWORD

JUST MY 2 CENTS WORTH.

VVV · 5th June 2012, 09:55 PM

Here is what they look like if you buy them in Indonesia nowadays.
I got mine in 2005 and I don't think it is much older...

But it's of course another matter if you hold it in your hand.
If you are convinced that it is the real thing then probably it is.
It just looks less like a weapon than those I have seen in other collections.
Is it heavy when you handle it and does it have the weight at the tip?

Michael

PS I don't think they are the same as Belida.
The Belida blades are much better and also longer, more like the Pade/Klewang type.
Check 'stick sword' in van Z for a reference picture.

Sajen · 5th June 2012, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

I HAVE BEEN RELUCTANT TO JUMP IN AND A BIT LAZY AS WELL WAITING FOR SOMEONE ELSE WITH MORE KNOWLEGE TO JUMP IN.
I LOOKED THRU VAN ZONNEVELDS BOOK AND DID NOT SEE ANYTHING EXACTLY LIKE THIS SWORD AND DIDN'T FIND TOPO OR PEDA LISTED UNDER FLORES. THE CLOSEST I CAME WAS ON PAGE 33 THE BELIDA THE ONES IN THE BOOK HAVE THE VERY FANCY GRIP AND PROVIDE ROOM FOR A TWO HANDED GRIP IF DESIRED. YOUR EXAMPLE HAS A VERY SIMPLE HANDLE WITH THE CURVE AND PERHAPS ROOM FOR A TWO HANDED GRIP? THE BLADE IS ABOUT THE SAME SO PERHAPS THIS IS A LATER AND SIMPLER MODEL OF THE OLD FORM OF BELIDA. FOR EXAMPLE THE PHILIPPINE PIRA OF TODAY HAS LITTLE RESEMBLENCE TO THE OLD ONES EXCEPT THE BLADES ARE STILL SIMULAR. NICE SWORD

JUST MY 2 CENTS WORTH.

Thank you for comment. Have a look at page 129, pic. 526, you will see exactly the same form. These swords are from the region around Ende.

Best regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 5th June 2012, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Here is what they look like if you buy them in Indonesia nowadays.
I got mine in 2005 and I don't think it is much older...

But it's of course another matter if you hold it in your hand.
If you are convinced that it is the real thing then probably it is.
It just looks less like a weapon than those I have seen in other collections.
Is it heavy when you handle it and does it have the weight at the tip?

Michael

PS I don't think they are the same as Belida.
The Belida blades are much better and also longer, more like the Pade/Klewang type.
Check 'stick sword' in van Z for a reference picture.

Hi Michael,

I never come across such a sword in Indonesia. Your one don't look so bad from the pictures. Do you have tried to remove the corrosion? Or do you see a lamination? The spine from yours look good from the pictures. How thick is the blade at the handle?
I think the thickness of mine and the lamination are good signs. I have the experience that later swords from the Lesser Sunda Islands haven't a lamination and the blades are much more slim.

My one is heavy in the hand and you are correct, the weight is at the tip.
And again, I have no doubts about the information from the seller.

When I will find the time I will work at the blade and hope that I will be able to make the lamination visible again.

Best regards,

Detlef

VVV · 6th June 2012, 08:33 AM

Hi Detlef,

Actually I haven't handled it for several years and now I am not sure were I put it. I remember I cleaned it and was disappointed about its weight and feeling. My other Flores swords are much heavier and with better blades. I will take another look at it when I have found it.

Michael

25th May 2012, 11:25 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,483	Rare topo or peda from Flores This rare topo from Flores just ended by ebay. It is the first example I have seen since I collect. It seems to be an old and real one, the blade is laminated and is comply with the description and picture in A. G. van Zonneveld on page 129. Just get the information from the seller that this piece is collected before 1900. Here the pictures. Attached Images Last edited by Sajen; 26th May 2012 at 02:17 PM.

5th June 2012, 09:55 PM	#7
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Here is what they look like if you buy them in Indonesia nowadays. I got mine in 2005 and I don't think it is much older... But it's of course another matter if you hold it in your hand. If you are convinced that it is the real thing then probably it is. It just looks less like a weapon than those I have seen in other collections. Is it heavy when you handle it and does it have the weight at the tip? Michael PS I don't think they are the same as Belida. The Belida blades are much better and also longer, more like the Pade/Klewang type. Check 'stick sword' in van Z for a reference picture. Attached Images Last edited by VVV; 5th June 2012 at 10:25 PM.

26th May 2012, 11:10 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,483	After some research in the database from the Leiden museum I found out that the local name from this sword type is PEDA.

5th June 2012, 07:00 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,483	Over 200 views and not one comment?

5th June 2012, 09:13 PM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	OK Detlef, I will give it a try. I am a bit skeptical to it being 100 years based on those few (handful!) old ones I have seen all had much better blades. However, all the recent ones I have seen have this kind of poorly made and thin blade. Also the handle makes me hesitate a bit. But that is just a hunch... Michael

5th June 2012, 09:31 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,483	Hello Michael, the blade is nearly 9 mm thick and laminated but badly over polished maybe to polish out corrosion! But you are correct, the blade detract the overall impression. it will be some work to make the lamination visible again. The seller is very serious and the source from where he get it and so the age believable. But don't worry, your comment is very welcome and a critical comment is better as no comment! What bother you by the handle? I will try to get further informations from the seller. Best regards, Detlef

5th June 2012, 09:45 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAVE BEEN RELUCTANT TO JUMP IN AND A BIT LAZY AS WELL WAITING FOR SOMEONE ELSE WITH MORE KNOWLEGE TO JUMP IN. I LOOKED THRU VAN ZONNEVELDS BOOK AND DID NOT SEE ANYTHING EXACTLY LIKE THIS SWORD AND DIDN'T FIND TOPO OR PEDA LISTED UNDER FLORES. THE CLOSEST I CAME WAS ON PAGE 33 THE BELIDA THE ONES IN THE BOOK HAVE THE VERY FANCY GRIP AND PROVIDE ROOM FOR A TWO HANDED GRIP IF DESIRED. YOUR EXAMPLE HAS A VERY SIMPLE HANDLE WITH THE CURVE AND PERHAPS ROOM FOR A TWO HANDED GRIP? THE BLADE IS ABOUT THE SAME SO PERHAPS THIS IS A LATER AND SIMPLER MODEL OF THE OLD FORM OF BELIDA. FOR EXAMPLE THE PHILIPPINE PIRA OF TODAY HAS LITTLE RESEMBLENCE TO THE OLD ONES EXCEPT THE BLADES ARE STILL SIMULAR. NICE SWORD JUST MY 2 CENTS WORTH.

6th June 2012, 08:33 AM	#10
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hi Detlef, Actually I haven't handled it for several years and now I am not sure were I put it. I remember I cleaned it and was disappointed about its weight and feeling. My other Flores swords are much heavier and with better blades. I will take another look at it when I have found it. Michael