Datu Ivory Kris

[BSMStar]

Originally Posted by elevennevele

I don't see how you can honestly tell me that a person paying higher prices for something now doesn't share the same appreciation of an item as the person who was able to acquire items when they weren't as valued. Cheap items and expensive items both have unscrupulous sellers out to make a dollar and exploit the culture they are dealing in. Do you think all those selling their Soviet trinkets gave an impassioned thought about their own culture as they watched the items leave the borders of their homeland? Was that the noble process for the true collector who saw value in those trinkets??

I do not believe that I made an “all inclusive” statement that winning bidders or people paying higher prices for something do not share the same appreciation as any other collector. I just simply stated that the idea of paying $100 for a $1 sponge is insane.

Unscrupulous sellers… ???

The Russians sold their trinkets… and these trinkets found a market where collectors were willing to pick them up for their historical value (and not the princely sums they are today). Better to save and preserve these unwanted trinkets for research and study than to loose them… so by the way, why are you a collector?

Originally Posted by elevennevele

By your own testimony you have obviously collected things that were sitting somewhere probably neglected in someone's home and which didn't share that appreciation by the owner. And really, that is probably how you acquired these items on the cheap in the first place.

Actually… for me anyway, that is a rare event. At least until eBay came along… and even on eBay, most of the folks I purchase from are reputable dealers.

Originally Posted by elevennevele

In fact you contradicted yourself when you spoke of the Japanese re-purchasing their own history at much higher prices and undoubtedly pushed up values in the process of trying to acquire. That doesn't speak of a lack of appreciation, or foolish ignorance on the part of those collectors.

Actually, you missed my point again… When Japan surrendered in WWII, the US military banned these swords… and thousands were grounded up and melted down… and many thousands and thousands more were taken as souvenirs… the average soldier bringing these swords home did not appreciate what they had. It took the Japanese 40 years to gain the wealth to bring some of these sword back home… where they are again respected and appreciated. But the average Japanese family that lost a sword, will not own one of these again.

Originally Posted by elevennevele

Sure, I' m definitely seeing some irrational exuberance on eBay, and the hidden bidding is opening the door to being ripped off, and to me that is the real concern. The 'real issue' especially if the bidder has no intention of paying. However, to tell me that a person who is paying more than the expected going prices is simply a hoarder or doesn't share the level of appreciation as a collector as yourself is very presumptuous in my opinion. In fact it makes much more sense that a person who is simply out for the buck would want to acquire items as cheaply as possible.

Really, the person paying a hefty sum for something that has little purpose in today's age other than to admire or preserve is probably more researched for having spent that money and also would have probably then given thought to it's care for the investment alone. That at least insures more likely a greater care to the artifacts preservation. Maybe that person isn't as astute a collector as yourself, or as great a scholar of the artifact that he or she owns, but that has nothing to do with appreciation. Neither does collections in the hands of an even more knowledgeable collector equal the ability to give greater care of the item, or hold a greater means for sharing it with others.

And really, how many of you have bought things, only to become more knowledgeable or even more appreciative of the item after having owned it for a time? Sometimes the cart comes before the horse in collecting. Nothing wrong with that if the item was still purchased intentionally with a sense of appreciation.

You assume a lot and here is my point… if you do not appreciate the value of money, then how are you going to appreciate the value of what you have purchased… when obviously you do not understand what you have purchased (other than a sharp stabby thingy with an ivory handle)? If that is all the pleasure one gets… maybe they are in the wrong field.

And if a Datu sword still went for $50, who's to say a teenager with a nice allowance from parents wouldn't buy it simply because it's 'cool' only to let it sit in his closet gathering dust with that autographed baseball glove? For me being one who values preservation along with collecting, I'm a little more reassured for the culture in question if the hands exchanging the artifact at least see as much value towards the item as in the cost they are billing themselves for it.

I can not speak for Canada, but in the States… a teenager can not buy sharp stabby thingies… and at that time, I would love to have had that allowance. Of course that allowance would be in the $2000 range now.

In all honestly, I'm all for your thinking and I wish it were as you've said, but I think that is more 'idealism' towards the concept of collecting than anything else.

At least we found some common ground. Cheers to that.