Boan knife

josh stout · 18th April 2008, 04:08 PM

I thought I could post this incorrectly IDed knife. These were recently under discussion, and this looks like a classic example of the type.
Josh

http://www.antiquesauctionsbuysell.com/Product_531.html

Lew · 18th April 2008, 04:15 PM

Looks Chinese or Mongolian to me?

Lew

josh stout · 18th April 2008, 05:24 PM

Check out this recent thread.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6138

They are Boa An or Bonan knives, sorry for the spelling in the thread title. For some reason spell check does not catch it

Josh

David · 19th April 2008, 02:39 AM

Josh, i agree that this knife you linked to is probably Bao An and not Burmese as described.
However, i do still do not believe that the knife that Stu started that othet thread with or my example are of the same origin. Both construction and materials are quite different.

josh stout · 21st April 2008, 05:29 PM

Well I think we can agree that the black handled knives like the one I linked to are Bao An, while there may be a bit more uncertainty about the white handled knives like the ones you are talking about. For the black handled ones, they seem to all have been made in the last thirty years or so. The white handled ones seem a bit older.

Here are some things to consider. Fullers are rare on Chinese, Mongoian, and Manchu knives, but seem more common on Tibetan knives as well as these Bao An knives. So there is definitely a link.

The copper decoration seems to be a regional aspect related to Eastern Tibet and Northern Qinghai, with Eastern Tibetan, Yi, and BaoAn things all showing some degree of copper/brass decoration worked into pommels and handles. This is best characterized by layers of different types of copper, brass and white metal stacked in the pommel.

What seems to be diagnostic is the flair of the pommel, with Eastern Tibetan things showing a slight flair as you mention, while the BaoAn dao having a much more pronounced flair that is quite noticeable.

So we are trying to differentiate knives coming from the same general region made by peoples that share aesthetic approaches and techniques. All of these characteristics are then blended in a knife design that is shared throughout east Asia, from the tanto to Mongol utility knives. I think it is possible to say that some characteristics indicate which region a knife comes from, and in obvious cases we can say which people made it. Nevertheless, I am quite willing to admit that there are many knives whose characteristics are not clear enough to allow us to assign them to a specific ethnographic group.
Josh

David · 22nd April 2008, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh stout

Here are some things to consider. Fullers are rare on Chinese, Mongoian, and Manchu knives, but seem more common on Tibetan knives as well as these Bao An knives. So there is definitely a link.

Maybe they are rare, but not unheard of. Here's a Chinese trousse with a fuller.

josh stout · 22nd April 2008, 06:08 PM

With China, I never say never, it is too big.

That is a nice knife, can you say anything about it? It does not look too old, but it looks well done. The dragon decorations remind me of modern things.
Josh

David · 23rd April 2008, 02:45 PM

I can't say too much about it really. I handled it when i photographed it, but it is not mine (a friend needed pics to try to sell it). I believe the chopsticks are ivory and the fittings are silver, but i've done no tests on it. It is a very nicely done solid piece and i got the impression that it was probably mid 20th century though i suppose early 20thC wouldn't be out of the question. I believe my friend thought it was Mandarin.

Nagawarrior · 23rd April 2008, 10:05 PM

I have been following this tread closely. I now own the Tibetan/Boan knife that started this discussion. The scabbard is different than Tibetan knives I've seen in the past. Perhaps the scabbard design is the key to determining the origin of this knife? Tibetan scabbards are usually fancy and a very different shape.
Here are some pics of a couple trousses that I own. Note the Mongolian has fullers, the Chinese has none. Can someone translate the chop mark on the Mongolian blade?

18th April 2008, 04:08 PM	#1
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Boan knife I thought I could post this incorrectly IDed knife. These were recently under discussion, and this looks like a classic example of the type. Josh http://www.antiquesauctionsbuysell.com/Product_531.html

18th April 2008, 04:15 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Looks Chinese or Mongolian to me? Lew

18th April 2008, 05:24 PM	#3
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Check out this recent thread. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6138 They are Boa An or Bonan knives, sorry for the spelling in the thread title. For some reason spell check does not catch it Josh

19th April 2008, 02:39 AM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	Josh, i agree that this knife you linked to is probably Bao An and not Burmese as described. However, i do still do not believe that the knife that Stu started that othet thread with or my example are of the same origin. Both construction and materials are quite different.

21st April 2008, 05:29 PM	#5
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Well I think we can agree that the black handled knives like the one I linked to are Bao An, while there may be a bit more uncertainty about the white handled knives like the ones you are talking about. For the black handled ones, they seem to all have been made in the last thirty years or so. The white handled ones seem a bit older. Here are some things to consider. Fullers are rare on Chinese, Mongoian, and Manchu knives, but seem more common on Tibetan knives as well as these Bao An knives. So there is definitely a link. The copper decoration seems to be a regional aspect related to Eastern Tibet and Northern Qinghai, with Eastern Tibetan, Yi, and BaoAn things all showing some degree of copper/brass decoration worked into pommels and handles. This is best characterized by layers of different types of copper, brass and white metal stacked in the pommel. What seems to be diagnostic is the flair of the pommel, with Eastern Tibetan things showing a slight flair as you mention, while the BaoAn dao having a much more pronounced flair that is quite noticeable. So we are trying to differentiate knives coming from the same general region made by peoples that share aesthetic approaches and techniques. All of these characteristics are then blended in a knife design that is shared throughout east Asia, from the tanto to Mongol utility knives. I think it is possible to say that some characteristics indicate which region a knife comes from, and in obvious cases we can say which people made it. Nevertheless, I am quite willing to admit that there are many knives whose characteristics are not clear enough to allow us to assign them to a specific ethnographic group. Josh

22nd April 2008, 06:08 PM	#7
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	With China, I never say never, it is too big. That is a nice knife, can you say anything about it? It does not look too old, but it looks well done. The dragon decorations remind me of modern things. Josh

23rd April 2008, 02:45 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	I can't say too much about it really. I handled it when i photographed it, but it is not mine (a friend needed pics to try to sell it). I believe the chopsticks are ivory and the fittings are silver, but i've done no tests on it. It is a very nicely done solid piece and i got the impression that it was probably mid 20th century though i suppose early 20thC wouldn't be out of the question. I believe my friend thought it was Mandarin.

23rd April 2008, 10:05 PM	#9
Nagawarrior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Inland Empire, Southern California USA Posts: 160	I have been following this tread closely. I now own the Tibetan/Boan knife that started this discussion. The scabbard is different than Tibetan knives I've seen in the past. Perhaps the scabbard design is the key to determining the origin of this knife? Tibetan scabbards are usually fancy and a very different shape. Here are some pics of a couple trousses that I own. Note the Mongolian has fullers, the Chinese has none. Can someone translate the chop mark on the Mongolian blade?