Hiltless Twist Core Moro Kris

F. de Luzon · 11th July 2017, 09:15 AM

Hello! I'm sharing a photo of a hiltless twist core Moro kris. The tang is rectangular as Moro kris tangs usually are unlike that of the Indonesian and Malaysian keris which is round. I removed the hilt because it was inverted. Now I'm tempted to swap the hilt with an ivory pommeled one from another kris in my collection. The ivory pommeled hilt is attached to a low quality blade.

I think it is a Maguindanao blade but is it possibly Maranao? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I would greatly appreciate your insights. Thank you!

Kind regards,

Fernando

F. de Luzon · 11th July 2017, 09:43 AM

The hilt it came with. When attached in the correct position it does not fit right. It is possible that it is not original to the blade.

Also, the kris did not come with a clamp (baca-baca/asang-asang).

kai · 11th July 2017, 06:33 PM

Hello Fernando,

Quote:

The hilt it came with. When attached in the correct position it does not fit right. It is possible that it is not original to the blade.

IMVHO this is a nice and suitable hilt! (Keep in mind that high quality wood was precious and traditionally regarded to have talismanic/protective power...)

If there is resin inside the hilt, it may be responsible for the seemingly "wrong" fit - should be a piece of cake to reset properly though (after thoroughly heating the tang). You can probe with a hot needle first.

Of course, this hilt deserves to be complemented with a suitable silver clamp. Sorrily, these are common to get "lost" due to the amount of silver put into them.

Regards,
Kai

kai · 11th July 2017, 08:01 PM

Hello Fernando,

How long is this blade? I'd love to see it etched!

BTW, I'd also remove the rust from the tang.

Quote:

I think it is a Maguindanao blade but is it possibly Maranao?

I believe this could be a Sulu blade. Please post close-ups of the base (taken exactly from above) and also the whole blade!

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 11th July 2017, 10:43 PM

I would place this as a Maguindanao blade based on the front and back of the ganga.

I agree with Kai though in that it should be etched to bring out the pattern. I also agree with Kai in that the hilt might truly be the right one, bunti wood being a precious commodity.

David · 11th July 2017, 11:02 PM

I would agree with the general consensus here so far. If you can manage to adjust this hilt so that it fits with the proper orientation my inclination would be to use the hilt that came with the blade. It's just my personal perspective that collectors of SEA weapons sometimes seem a bit too enthusiastic about changing the history of the blades we collect with upgrades (especially on keris). Certainly as a Western collector i am even more wary about changing out parts if it is not absolutely necessary due to them being either completely worn out or missing. But if i have a blade with a good, solid example like this i would certainly think twice before replacing it. It does seem to happen often with kris that we end up seeing ivory pommels on low quality blades like the one you are planning on swapping from. I think this often happens when dealers want to make a kris more appealing for the marketplace and they have a spare ivory pommel laying about.

Also agree with Kai that you should take care of that rust on the tang, though i would image you were probably already on that.

I also concur that you should show the whole blade. Sort of a tease to draw attention to a twisted core and then not properly show it.

F. de Luzon · 12th July 2017, 12:24 AM

Thank you Kai, Battara and David for your insights! I now realize the value of the hilt it came with. I have to remind myself to preserve the character of an antique blade like this rather than "upgrade." It seems in "upgrading" the parts, I will be downgrading its historical value. I'm grateful to you all for sharing your thoughts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I also concur that you should show the whole blade. Sort of a tease to draw attention to a twisted core and then not properly show it.

My apologies for this David. I was fixated on the hilt and the tang that I didn't realize this post would seem like a tease. Certainly unintended. I had planned on showing the whole blade after etching and with the hilt attached but I can do that later. For now, below are photos from the dealer.

F. de Luzon · 12th July 2017, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

How long is this blade?

Kai, the blade is 20 inches.

kino · 12th July 2017, 02:45 AM

Fernando, What are you etching the blade with?

F. de Luzon · 12th July 2017, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kino

Fernando, What are you etching the blade with?

Hi Kino,

This blade has not been etched yet. I plan to lightly etch it with white vinegar.

Regards,

Fernando

David · 13th July 2017, 06:39 PM

Thanks for the full-length photo Fernando. Looks like a beautiful blade.
BTW, if you find you have too much trouble properly fitting the old hilt to this blade i wouldn't hesitate replacing it with another. My only complaint about this practice is how often some collectors seem to swap out parts for upgrades just to increase the perceived value of the over all ensemble without concern for history or appropriateness of the upgrade.

Battara · 14th July 2017, 12:35 AM

I do have to agree with David - I too have seen this practice. Although it is an old Moro tradition, today the historical value might be a different story since these are antiques.

11th July 2017, 09:15 AM	#1
F. de Luzon Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 184	Hiltless Twist Core Moro Kris Hello! I'm sharing a photo of a hiltless twist core Moro kris. The tang is rectangular as Moro kris tangs usually are unlike that of the Indonesian and Malaysian keris which is round. I removed the hilt because it was inverted. Now I'm tempted to swap the hilt with an ivory pommeled one from another kris in my collection. The ivory pommeled hilt is attached to a low quality blade. I think it is a Maguindanao blade but is it possibly Maranao? Please correct me if I'm wrong. I would greatly appreciate your insights. Thank you! Kind regards, Fernando Attached Images Last edited by F. de Luzon; 11th July 2017 at 09:45 AM.

11th July 2017, 09:43 AM	#2
F. de Luzon Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 184	The hilt it came with. When attached in the correct position it does not fit right. It is possible that it is not original to the blade. Also, the kris did not come with a clamp (baca-baca/asang-asang). Attached Images

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11th July 2017, 10:43 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I would place this as a Maguindanao blade based on the front and back of the ganga. I agree with Kai though in that it should be etched to bring out the pattern. I also agree with Kai in that the hilt might truly be the right one, bunti wood being a precious commodity.

11th July 2017, 11:02 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	I would agree with the general consensus here so far. If you can manage to adjust this hilt so that it fits with the proper orientation my inclination would be to use the hilt that came with the blade. It's just my personal perspective that collectors of SEA weapons sometimes seem a bit too enthusiastic about changing the history of the blades we collect with upgrades (especially on keris). Certainly as a Western collector i am even more wary about changing out parts if it is not absolutely necessary due to them being either completely worn out or missing. But if i have a blade with a good, solid example like this i would certainly think twice before replacing it. It does seem to happen often with kris that we end up seeing ivory pommels on low quality blades like the one you are planning on swapping from. I think this often happens when dealers want to make a kris more appealing for the marketplace and they have a spare ivory pommel laying about. Also agree with Kai that you should take care of that rust on the tang, though i would image you were probably already on that. I also concur that you should show the whole blade. Sort of a tease to draw attention to a twisted core and then not properly show it.

12th July 2017, 02:45 AM	#9
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 972	Fernando, What are you etching the blade with?

13th July 2017, 06:39 PM	#11
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	Thanks for the full-length photo Fernando. Looks like a beautiful blade. BTW, if you find you have too much trouble properly fitting the old hilt to this blade i wouldn't hesitate replacing it with another. My only complaint about this practice is how often some collectors seem to swap out parts for upgrades just to increase the perceived value of the over all ensemble without concern for history or appropriateness of the upgrade.

14th July 2017, 12:35 AM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I do have to agree with David - I too have seen this practice. Although it is an old Moro tradition, today the historical value might be a different story since these are antiques.