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Old 2nd October 2021, 07:15 PM   #1
Tea
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Default Kothimora Kukri

Greetings Everyine,

I would like to receive some information about the Kukri here-under.
Also I have a few questions:
- Do you think the scabbard and the kukri where meant to go together as a whole: the scabbard is about 5cm longer than the blade which seems like a lot to me.
- Would anabody be able to guess the date of the kukri and of the scabbard? Do you think it's an antique?
- Obviously their is a piece missing at the pommer (I'm guessing a brass plate) however the overall construction seems weird to me: I don't see the tang of the blade instead it seems like their is wood shimmed inside the horn handle. Would anybody have some information on the construction?

Please forgive my English it's not my mother tongue
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Old 3rd October 2021, 08:19 PM   #2
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The scabbard is very nicely worked, while the knife is sub-average, so I see a miss-match.

Adding the fact that the scabbard is significantly longer, I would say it does not belong to this blade.

PS: Scabbards are usually longer than the blade, but not that much. I also seem to notice a slight difference in curvature between the scabbard and blade.
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Old 3rd October 2021, 10:46 PM   #3
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Thank you mariusgmioc for this first answer.
I am suspecting a mismatch as well.
By any chance would you have a clue as to the production period of either the scabbard or the kukri? (since the chance of a mismatch is quite high I suppose the production dates can vary as well)
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Old 4th October 2021, 12:53 PM   #4
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Definite mismatch. Kothimora would have had a scabbard made specifically fitted to a better blade. Pommel cap has a section missing. Sword of shiva is nicely done, tho. The 'eyebrow mark in front of it is possibly an armoury mark. Lack of broken spine is usually a sign of earlier mfg. but also found in more recently made ones. Looks like it has a partial tang held on by laha (himalayan epoxy') that is the norm. Probably will need a new grip in a few decades of hard use. The forward edge of the bolster being serrated is a bit odd.

Nice scabbard!


My Hanshee Kothimora khukuri for reference.
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Last edited by kronckew; 4th October 2021 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 4th October 2021, 02:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tea View Post
Thank you mariusgmioc for this first answer.
I am suspecting a mismatch as well.
By any chance would you have a clue as to the production period of either the scabbard or the kukri? (since the chance of a mismatch is quite high I suppose the production dates can vary as well)
The scabbard is likely earlier than the kukri here and both somewhere around the second quarter of the 20th century or maybe a bit later.
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Old 4th October 2021, 02:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew View Post
Definite mismatch. Kothimora would have had a scabbard made specifically fitted to a better blade. Pommel cap has a section missing. Sword of shiva is nicely done, tho. The 'eyebrow mark in front of it is possibly an armoury mark. Lack of broken spine is usually a sign of earlier mfg. but also found in more recently made ones. Looks like it has a partial tang held on by laha (himalayan epoxy') that is the norm. Probably will need a new grip in a few decades of hard use. The forward edge of the bolster being serrated is a bit odd.

Nice scabbard!


My Hanshee Kothimora khukuri for reference.
A very early archaic kukri from around the second half of the 18th Century. later scabbard.
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Old 4th October 2021, 05:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMBA View Post
A very early archaic kukri from around the second half of the 18th Century. later scabbard.

I know. The red tinfoil under the fretwork is also a later addition to the scabbard. The scabbard is still fitted to the blade. Scabbards come and go, it probably lived in a std. plain black one before being promoted, like my other salyani, without the belt frog bit tho, and would have been carried in a sash. This later one has a substantial full length tang peened over a keeper on the pommel.
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Old 4th October 2021, 05:36 PM   #8
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When the Alpacalypse comes. this is the one I'll hang on my baldric. I call her Godzilla.
I have others.
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Old 4th October 2021, 11:28 PM   #9
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Thanks a lot everyone for your precious insights.

@ Ramba may I ask how you manage to date the scabbard I get that the shape of kukri's changed over time, yet it's still complex for me sometimes to Id the real deal from a well made reproduction (not those with lion heads)
I would be more than happy if you could suggest a few good books/articles

I read on the link below that the monster depicted on the scabbard is called cheppu/Kirtimukha is the decoration pattern one of the elements that helped to date my scabbard and the one from krockew?
https://kilatools.com/kukrihistory/

Also I don't know whether the use of velvet is common or not and whether it can help to specify a date?

@krockew I wouldn't mind if you'd added a few more pictures of your collection
I'm quite partial to the second one you posted.
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Old 19th October 2021, 12:13 AM   #10
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Hi I just encountered a very similar kukri on a vendor's website: the kukri is almost identical:engravings, eyelash sun and moon symbol even the karda is similar,
the scabbard has the same red velvet but is in much better state and still has 3 tools: the usual plus a small toothpick, the scabbard is similarly oversized. but has a different decoration in bazaar style.

So I suppose they might be a match after all...

I would like to know if and how I may refer to the pictures? Like the saying goes "a picture is worth a ...
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Old 22nd October 2021, 02:15 PM   #11
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Exclamation Discussion of an item presently for sale ...

Hi Tea,

Unfortunately, we do not permit linking to, discussing, or posting pictures of items that are currently for sale. I would suggest you download any pictures now as these can disappear quickly after a sale is completed. I understand that you would like to discuss this item now, but please wait until it is no longer for sale.

Ian.
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Old 23rd October 2021, 01:33 AM   #12
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Hi Ian thank you for the reply I'll make sure to do that once the sale is completed.

In the meantime I found 2 sold Kukri's which also look similar.
(less so than the one I had in mind but clearly the point is the same:

Here is an analysis of the first one:
- the eyelash is identical
- the serated part of the bolster is also present
- the upper part of the decoration pattern is identical
- the same red velvet is used on the scabbard

(far to many similiratities in my opinion to be a coincidence)

here is the link to the website: https://www.rubylane.com/item/146467...w-234856211751

And attached you'll find the pictures which give the best representation of the similarities with my kukri:
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Old 23rd October 2021, 01:43 AM   #13
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So now for the second similar kukri I found which is also sold

- the overall shape seems similar
- clearly in this example the bolster, cho, engravings, serated bolster are either different or absent in comparison to the kukri I posted
- The scabbard seems oversized
- the scabbard is almost identical to the previous one I posted

link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...kha-1838564254

And the pictures:
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Old 23rd October 2021, 02:08 AM   #14
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I don't know what we can learn based on the 2 new kukri I posted in my last messages.

I suppose we can determine it probably is not a mismatch after all.
It is however very strange that the scabbard is so much oversized: It's complicated to understand why they put so much effort into making a nice scabbard and so little effort into sizing the scabbard correctly.

Based on the new evidence are all the kukri I posted of the same period? Is the estimated period still second quarter of the 20th century?

Are the kukri genuine/ antique/ usable kukri's or does the fact that I found 4 similar examples mean they should be regarded as tourist kukri's?
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Old 23rd October 2021, 11:19 AM   #15
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The last two look like they are a decent fit, unlike the first post's.

Generic simplified comments for those who do not have or use the khukuri:

In the past, and even now, to a lesser extent, India had a rigid caste system, kind of a Union gone to extremes. Discrimination by caste is now illegal, but India, especially in rural areas, changes slowly.

The Lowest caste, the untouchables, included the Kamis (blacksmiths) and Sarkis (scabbard makers). The Kamis did not make the scabbards, and the sarkis did not make khukuri.

The kamis did work to patterns, but there was leeway, and no two hand-forged khukri were exactly the same, within limits. The sarki picks a wooden core of approx. the right length, width, and curvature to allow the insertion and removal of the khukuri without excessive effort.

The non-circular curve design of the khukri means you have a wider than usual throat area to accomodate the widest part of the blade as it turns as you remove it - remembering to NOT have any fingers along the blade edge side of the scabbard. They do occasionally cut thru the unglued seam between the scabbard core halves if the blade is not inserted/removed with the required motions. (the more 'circular' curved hanshee or salyani khuks have less trouble with is than the more 'modern (?) broken back ones.

There are 'quick draw versions of the scabbard where the top seam is open most of the way and the blade inserts into that side without the curving motion. These of course are not 'traditional, but 'custom' made for those who are not local.

see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWrb8w7E7iE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uo_bsCmk5c&t=52s


Another, just for its coolness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFArXZSKF_8



Top opening 'quick draw scabbard

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Last edited by kronckew; 23rd October 2021 at 12:07 PM.
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