Did I Make a BIG Mistake?

Robert · 25th January 2010, 11:10 PM

Well I just couldn't help myself and had to take a chance in these. My question is did I just buy a couple of wall hangers or did I get something nice? VOC on the blade in the bad pictures and the clip point caught my attention. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...fvi%3D1&_rdc=1 Any and all help and comments are more than welcome.

Robert

Here area couple of pictures from the auction.

kahnjar1 · 26th January 2010, 01:06 AM

Hi Robert. Interesting swords. The VOC is the symbal of the Dutch East India Company, in the Dutch = Vereenigde Oost-Indische Compagnie. Other than that I'm sorry I know nothing of the swords themselves, but IF they are what they appear to be, then I would say you got a bargain!
Regards Stuart

Robert · 26th January 2010, 01:18 AM

Hello Stuart and thank you very much for your response. I did know what the VOC stood for and with the clip point on the blades I thought that these could be something interesting. I normally collect Philippine weapons but some times I see something that looks interesting that I know nothing about and end up buying it purely on impulse. I've ended up with some real junk doing this and was just hoping that this was not going to be the case with these.

I have seen some Dutch swords with this type of tip to the blades but not with the lion hilt. Like I said before, any and all help with these will be greatly appreciated.

Robert

celtan · 26th January 2010, 02:47 AM

: )

We all have been there. And yet, after a while, you develop a third sense that attracts you to actually meaningful stuff, even though you may not consciously "know" anything about it.

That's intuitive intelligence, and it's far more effective than the usual rational process.

Nice swords!

M

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

...some times I see something that looks interesting that I know nothing about and end up buying it purely on impulse. I've ended up with some real junk doing this

Robert

Jim McDougall · 26th January 2010, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celtan

: )

We all have been there. And yet, after a while, you develop a third sense that attracts you to actually meaningful stuff, even though you may not consciously "know" anything about it.

That's intuitive intelligence, and it's far more effective than the usual rational process.

Nice swords!

M

And very nicely said Manolo!!!

All the best,
Jim

Rick · 26th January 2010, 03:01 AM

These resemble very much the A. Coppel Dutch klewang blade .

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=dutch+klewang

You got a steal .
Congrats !

Jim McDougall · 26th January 2010, 02:49 AM

Hi Robert,
Unbelievable, where did the seller ever get the idea these were Masonic??!!!
I guess it is inevitable that I bring up the now legendary 'Shaver Kool' thread, which ran for five years (2000-2005) and I think even ended up with a thread on 'another' forum titled 'Batavia Kool'. It had to do with what appeared to be an ivory hilt eagle or gryphon head pommel, the VOC mark, and a ship with the words SHAVER KOOL. This seemed to be a 19th century commemorative sword.

It was discovered that the Dutch naval swords would have had lionheads, according to Jan Piet Puype of the Legermuseum at Delft, Netherlands, there was a M1880 naval sword of such type I believe. These swords, and there seem to have been a number found, and it was suggested that the 'eagle' head may have been a garuda head since these were produced in Indonesia.
The Dutch navy apparantly had these issued as a sword of honor or 'pedang keharmatan', if my recollections are correct.

The VOC stamp on these is of course interpretative, and did not occur authentically on the forte, but in the blade center I believe. The stamp was only permitted by the best producers, and while a few examples are recorded of 17th century, they were not well known until 18th. The VOC was officially dissolved in 1800, superceded by Bataviaasche Genootschap, though the VOC stamp, much in the tradition of the markings on European trade blades, survived spuriously as a quality associated stamp.

These are likely Indonesian examples of ceremonial swords recalling these Dutch naval swords, with it seems an unusual klewang? type blade...the Indonesian experts here will undoubtedly clarify.

Best regards,
Jim

cornelistromp · 27th January 2010, 06:40 PM

Hi Robert,

the blades and scabbards are possibly of the M1898, I think around 1910. The last day that the VOC existed was 17 Mars 1798.

the VOC marked their weapons on the blade (never ricasso) with a year and the first capital of the Dutch VOC chamber. (A for Amsterdam fa).

the VOC did have lionheadhilts at the end of the 18thC but not of this type.

Iam afraid it has never belonged to the VOC but it can be a unknown rare type developed around the end of the 19thC. so still a bargain.

Regards from Holland

25th January 2010, 11:10 PM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Did I Make a BIG Mistake? Well I just couldn't help myself and had to take a chance in these. My question is did I just buy a couple of wall hangers or did I get something nice? VOC on the blade in the bad pictures and the clip point caught my attention. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...fvi%3D1&_rdc=1 Any and all help and comments are more than welcome. Robert Here area couple of pictures from the auction. Attached Images Last edited by Robert Coleman; 26th January 2010 at 12:12 AM.

27th January 2010, 06:40 PM	#8
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	Hi Robert, the blades and scabbards are possibly of the M1898, I think around 1910. The last day that the VOC existed was 17 Mars 1798. the VOC marked their weapons on the blade (never ricasso) with a year and the first capital of the Dutch VOC chamber. (A for Amsterdam fa). the VOC did have lionheadhilts at the end of the 18thC but not of this type. Iam afraid it has never belonged to the VOC but it can be a unknown rare type developed around the end of the 19thC. so still a bargain. Regards from Holland Last edited by cornelistromp; 27th January 2010 at 08:02 PM.

26th January 2010, 01:06 AM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,729	Hi Robert. Interesting swords. The VOC is the symbal of the Dutch East India Company, in the Dutch = Vereenigde Oost-Indische Compagnie. Other than that I'm sorry I know nothing of the swords themselves, but IF they are what they appear to be, then I would say you got a bargain! Regards Stuart

26th January 2010, 01:18 AM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Stuart and thank you very much for your response. I did know what the VOC stood for and with the clip point on the blades I thought that these could be something interesting. I normally collect Philippine weapons but some times I see something that looks interesting that I know nothing about and end up buying it purely on impulse. I've ended up with some real junk doing this and was just hoping that this was not going to be the case with these. I have seen some Dutch swords with this type of tip to the blades but not with the lion hilt. Like I said before, any and all help with these will be greatly appreciated. Robert

26th January 2010, 03:01 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	These resemble very much the A. Coppel Dutch klewang blade . http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=dutch+klewang You got a steal . Congrats !

26th January 2010, 02:49 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,748	Hi Robert, Unbelievable, where did the seller ever get the idea these were Masonic??!!! I guess it is inevitable that I bring up the now legendary 'Shaver Kool' thread, which ran for five years (2000-2005) and I think even ended up with a thread on 'another' forum titled 'Batavia Kool'. It had to do with what appeared to be an ivory hilt eagle or gryphon head pommel, the VOC mark, and a ship with the words SHAVER KOOL. This seemed to be a 19th century commemorative sword. It was discovered that the Dutch naval swords would have had lionheads, according to Jan Piet Puype of the Legermuseum at Delft, Netherlands, there was a M1880 naval sword of such type I believe. These swords, and there seem to have been a number found, and it was suggested that the 'eagle' head may have been a garuda head since these were produced in Indonesia. The Dutch navy apparantly had these issued as a sword of honor or 'pedang keharmatan', if my recollections are correct. The VOC stamp on these is of course interpretative, and did not occur authentically on the forte, but in the blade center I believe. The stamp was only permitted by the best producers, and while a few examples are recorded of 17th century, they were not well known until 18th. The VOC was officially dissolved in 1800, superceded by Bataviaasche Genootschap, though the VOC stamp, much in the tradition of the markings on European trade blades, survived spuriously as a quality associated stamp. These are likely Indonesian examples of ceremonial swords recalling these Dutch naval swords, with it seems an unusual klewang? type blade...the Indonesian experts here will undoubtedly clarify. Best regards, Jim