Shandigan Barong

carlitobrigante · 9th February 2016, 09:52 PM

Thought i'd share a recent purchase, as i know a few here appreciate a nice Barong

Always regretted selling my other examples, so treated myself to this one.

I'll post a better pic of the blade once i get round to etching it.

Battara · 10th February 2016, 01:33 AM

Very nice piece.

I especially like the fact that it seems intact! The sleeve is unusual and great. laminations look good, and the carving on the scabbard is great.

Could be Samal in origin. Need to do more research to see. I'd put this at the beginning of the 20c.

What is also unusual is that it is a little longer than expected, almost looking like a sipput barung.

Congratulations and thanks for posting this great example.

carlitobrigante · 17th March 2016, 11:52 PM

Thanks for the comment.

The blade is just shy of 20 inches long. A few more pics added.

Am i right in saying we still only have Catos book (which i am yet to find a copy of) that touches on these fascinating weapons?

Battara · 18th March 2016, 06:06 AM

Cato is a good starter book, but there is a lot that he does not cover.

I had forgotten that this type of blade is called a shadrigan due to the type of edge it has. The length and narrowness of blade might be also considered a sipput at the same time.

Also the work on the top of the scabbard does look like Samal work to me, as well as the pommel.

Have you considered etching the blade? I can see some great laminations in it.

carlitobrigante · 18th March 2016, 11:32 PM

Thanks for the comments Battara, i really appreciate your input

I gave it a quick warm vinegar etch, the results of which are shown in the above images. I will do another vinegar etch to improve it further but i doubt i'll have the confidence to do a more aggressive acid etc for fear of me spoling the blade in my inexperienced attempt.

I am aware Catos book has been long overtaken by the accumulated knowledge from the good folks of this forum, but was kind of hoping something more up to date and substantial was out there or was in the works. Even Cato's book is impossible to find for a newbie.

This is obviously a fighting Barong despite the unusual brass ornamentation. In your opinion is this likely a Barong that belonged to a Datu, or is it a more common barong carried by a moro tribesman that just happens to be more ornate than typical. Did a Datu have 'ceremonial' Barongs not used for combat, or were even the beautiful ornate examples we see get carried into battle?

What do we know of the shandigan technique, its efficiency, place of origin etc etc. And does anyone have any pictures of the earliest Barongs that have provenence, or give any thoughts on when do we first see evidence of this form of blade in the Philippines?

Sorry for the barrage of so many questions! Any pointers or suggested reading would be much appreciated.

Battara · 19th March 2016, 03:56 AM

Some good questions.

Yes dates had different types of kris, barong, etc. for ceremonial use, everyday use, and for battle use. Datu pieces would still be ornate, but the amount would depend on the usage type.

Those not datus but of higher rank or great warriors were allowed to have some ornamentation.

So is this a datu fighting class barong - not sure, but could be, or at least be in the next lower category.

Barong types also depend on the tribe and island origin.

Add to that, in the past I understand that barong blades get a little smaller the further in time one goes back.

Yes we are still learning. The problem is at least 2 fold:

1. Most of the elders who had the old knowledge are now dead.
2. For folks trying to go back there in these regions to do more research, they are now prohibited due to the escalation of danger and violence there. I actually know of a gentleman who was asked years ago by his Sulu body guards not to come back since they could no longer guarantee his safety.

Battara · 19th March 2016, 04:00 AM

I also must apologize for repeating myself, constantly, over and over again.

I also must apologize for repeating myself, constantly, over and over again.

Sajen · 19th March 2016, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlitobrigante

Thanks for the comment.

The blade is just shy of 20 inches long. A few more pics added.

Am i right in saying we still only have Catos book (which i am yet to find a copy of) that touches on these fascinating weapons?

Agree with Jose,

very nice example, congrats for this great find!

Regards,
Detlef

9th February 2016, 09:52 PM	#1
carlitobrigante Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Solihull, UK Posts: 81	Shandigan Barong Thought i'd share a recent purchase, as i know a few here appreciate a nice Barong Always regretted selling my other examples, so treated myself to this one. I'll post a better pic of the blade once i get round to etching it. Attached Images

17th March 2016, 11:52 PM	#3
carlitobrigante Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Solihull, UK Posts: 81	Thanks for the comment. The blade is just shy of 20 inches long. A few more pics added. Am i right in saying we still only have Catos book (which i am yet to find a copy of) that touches on these fascinating weapons? Attached Images Last edited by carlitobrigante; 18th March 2016 at 12:10 AM.

18th March 2016, 11:32 PM	#5
carlitobrigante Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Solihull, UK Posts: 81	Thanks for the comments Battara, i really appreciate your input I gave it a quick warm vinegar etch, the results of which are shown in the above images. I will do another vinegar etch to improve it further but i doubt i'll have the confidence to do a more aggressive acid etc for fear of me spoling the blade in my inexperienced attempt. I am aware Catos book has been long overtaken by the accumulated knowledge from the good folks of this forum, but was kind of hoping something more up to date and substantial was out there or was in the works. Even Cato's book is impossible to find for a newbie. This is obviously a fighting Barong despite the unusual brass ornamentation. In your opinion is this likely a Barong that belonged to a Datu, or is it a more common barong carried by a moro tribesman that just happens to be more ornate than typical. Did a Datu have 'ceremonial' Barongs not used for combat, or were even the beautiful ornate examples we see get carried into battle? What do we know of the shandigan technique, its efficiency, place of origin etc etc. And does anyone have any pictures of the earliest Barongs that have provenence, or give any thoughts on when do we first see evidence of this form of blade in the Philippines? Sorry for the barrage of so many questions! Any pointers or suggested reading would be much appreciated. Last edited by carlitobrigante; 19th March 2016 at 06:17 PM.

19th March 2016, 03:56 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Some good questions. Yes dates had different types of kris, barong, etc. for ceremonial use, everyday use, and for battle use. Datu pieces would still be ornate, but the amount would depend on the usage type. Those not datus but of higher rank or great warriors were allowed to have some ornamentation. So is this a datu fighting class barong - not sure, but could be, or at least be in the next lower category. Barong types also depend on the tribe and island origin. Add to that, in the past I understand that barong blades get a little smaller the further in time one goes back. Yes we are still learning. The problem is at least 2 fold: 1. Most of the elders who had the old knowledge are now dead. 2. For folks trying to go back there in these regions to do more research, they are now prohibited due to the escalation of danger and violence there. I actually know of a gentleman who was asked years ago by his Sulu body guards not to come back since they could no longer guarantee his safety.

10th February 2016, 01:33 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Very nice piece. I especially like the fact that it seems intact! The sleeve is unusual and great. laminations look good, and the carving on the scabbard is great. Could be Samal in origin. Need to do more research to see. I'd put this at the beginning of the 20c. What is also unusual is that it is a little longer than expected, almost looking like a sipput barung. Congratulations and thanks for posting this great example.

18th March 2016, 06:06 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Cato is a good starter book, but there is a lot that he does not cover. I had forgotten that this type of blade is called a shadrigan due to the type of edge it has. The length and narrowness of blade might be also considered a sipput at the same time. Also the work on the top of the scabbard does look like Samal work to me, as well as the pommel. Have you considered etching the blade? I can see some great laminations in it.

19th March 2016, 04:00 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I also must apologize for repeating myself, constantly, over and over again. I also must apologize for repeating myself, constantly, over and over again.