Fiji battle hammer

Tim Simmons · 19th January 2016, 08:34 PM

I have gambled a not inconsiderable amount of hongo on these pictures. If it turns out right then I have a bargain. In the current market a gamble is the only way I can get a club like this. However common they are the prices remain stubbornly high. It is not that big being 73 cm long but short forms are not unusual. In " Fijian weapons and warfare, Furgus Clunie, Fiji Musem" there are examples of around 80cm , that cannot be the end of the story or the absolute law. You can see some damage which would be expected.. The form does not appear to resemble modern types. The question is patina? Does it have the age we collectors desire? I could see it match clubs I have. I will try to add a few pictures tomorrow. In the end it is a matter of waiting with fingers crossed.

Helleri · 20th January 2016, 02:58 AM

It looks like the color and sheen is uneven which is a good sign. But outside of that there isn't much more you can tell about patination from images. And ultimately the age of a patina is not necessarily indicative of the age of a piece. At any point in changing hands from owner to owner it could have been too aggressively cleaned or even refinished. So a patina can be partially or completely destroyed and rebuilt several times during a pieces lifespan.

And comparing patina doesn't help much because different items (no matter how similar) tend to see radically different treatment through out their life (i.e. temperature and humidity ranges they are kept in, degree of handling, chemicals they are exposed to etc.)

While this is all more or less true for most patination. It is especially true for anything made of wood wherein the patina is mostly made of dust from the air (which has become invested in oils that form on the surface from treatment, handling, and the wood itself, and is caked on) as apposed to oxidization, such as with metal patina, which tends to be more durable.

Tim Simmons · 20th January 2016, 07:26 AM

I cannot get the same light or back cloth but I feel you can see why I was prepared to take a gamble. My picture is slightly more in focus.

BANDOOK · 20th January 2016, 10:05 AM

NICE PINEAPPLE CLUB,CHEERS

fireiceviper · 26th January 2016, 07:31 PM

I have some doubts Tim, but lets wait for better pictures..

VANDOO · 26th January 2016, 09:29 PM

I HOPE WHEN IT ARRIVES IT IS A GOOD OLD EXAMPLE. SOMETIMES OLD CLUBS HAVE DAMAGE TO THE SPIKE , HEAD OR SHAFT NATIVE REPAIRS ARE SOMETIMES MADE BUT MORE MODERN REPAIRS IN VARIOUS DEGREES OF EXPERTISE ARE ALSO FOUND. WHEN ONE CONSIDERS THE AGE OF SOME OF THESE CLUBS, PERFECT EXAMPLES ARE PROBABLY NOT THE NORM. I HAVE A FEW EXAMPLES WITH DAMAGE THAT COULD BE RESTORED BUT I AM NOT SURE IF I WANT TO RESTORE THEM OR LEAVE THEM AS IS.

GOOD LUCK

Tim Simmons · 28th January 2016, 05:42 PM

There has been a slight delay in getting this club but all sorted now so should be here in a week or so. In the meantime I post pages from the before mentioned publication. This is not the law, but does show that size is variable. I have hope that my club is like the one in the page of assorted types illustrated with shading, except not having a decorated handle end.

Tim Simmons · 1st February 2016, 05:49 PM

This is possible a case of fraudulent activity on ebay. I have been in communication with ebay. If this turns out to be so I shall warn all who to avoid.

fireiceviper · 4th February 2016, 06:36 PM

Any news yet Tim?

Tim Simmons · 10th February 2016, 12:43 PM

This has turned into a nightmare first I notice the seller was offering the same club under a different seller name. I reported this. The seller said it was not and that mine was being sent to me. On arrival it is not the club in the picture and clearly a tourist piece. So it goes on.

colin henshaw · 10th February 2016, 03:17 PM

Tim, sorry to hear of your bad experience. Hope you get your money back at least.

19th January 2016, 08:34 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Fiji battle hammer I have gambled a not inconsiderable amount of hongo on these pictures. If it turns out right then I have a bargain. In the current market a gamble is the only way I can get a club like this. However common they are the prices remain stubbornly high. It is not that big being 73 cm long but short forms are not unusual. In " Fijian weapons and warfare, Furgus Clunie, Fiji Musem" there are examples of around 80cm , that cannot be the end of the story or the absolute law. You can see some damage which would be expected.. The form does not appear to resemble modern types. The question is patina? Does it have the age we collectors desire? I could see it match clubs I have. I will try to add a few pictures tomorrow. In the end it is a matter of waiting with fingers crossed. Attached Images

20th January 2016, 07:26 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	I cannot get the same light or back cloth but I feel you can see why I was prepared to take a gamble. My picture is slightly more in focus. Attached Images

20th January 2016, 10:05 AM	#4
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	NICE PINEAPPLE CLUB,CHEERS Attached Images Last edited by BANDOOK; 20th January 2016 at 10:30 AM.

28th January 2016, 05:42 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	There has been a slight delay in getting this club but all sorted now so should be here in a week or so. In the meantime I post pages from the before mentioned publication. This is not the law, but does show that size is variable. I have hope that my club is like the one in the page of assorted types illustrated with shading, except not having a decorated handle end. Attached Images

20th January 2016, 02:58 AM	#2
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Boulder Creek, CA. Posts: 202	It looks like the color and sheen is uneven which is a good sign. But outside of that there isn't much more you can tell about patination from images. And ultimately the age of a patina is not necessarily indicative of the age of a piece. At any point in changing hands from owner to owner it could have been too aggressively cleaned or even refinished. So a patina can be partially or completely destroyed and rebuilt several times during a pieces lifespan. And comparing patina doesn't help much because different items (no matter how similar) tend to see radically different treatment through out their life (i.e. temperature and humidity ranges they are kept in, degree of handling, chemicals they are exposed to etc.) While this is all more or less true for most patination. It is especially true for anything made of wood wherein the patina is mostly made of dust from the air (which has become invested in oils that form on the surface from treatment, handling, and the wood itself, and is caked on) as apposed to oxidization, such as with metal patina, which tends to be more durable.

26th January 2016, 07:31 PM	#5
fireiceviper Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 87	I have some doubts Tim, but lets wait for better pictures..

26th January 2016, 09:29 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HOPE WHEN IT ARRIVES IT IS A GOOD OLD EXAMPLE. SOMETIMES OLD CLUBS HAVE DAMAGE TO THE SPIKE , HEAD OR SHAFT NATIVE REPAIRS ARE SOMETIMES MADE BUT MORE MODERN REPAIRS IN VARIOUS DEGREES OF EXPERTISE ARE ALSO FOUND. WHEN ONE CONSIDERS THE AGE OF SOME OF THESE CLUBS, PERFECT EXAMPLES ARE PROBABLY NOT THE NORM. I HAVE A FEW EXAMPLES WITH DAMAGE THAT COULD BE RESTORED BUT I AM NOT SURE IF I WANT TO RESTORE THEM OR LEAVE THEM AS IS. GOOD LUCK

1st February 2016, 05:49 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	This is possible a case of fraudulent activity on ebay. I have been in communication with ebay. If this turns out to be so I shall warn all who to avoid.

4th February 2016, 06:36 PM	#9
fireiceviper Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 87	Any news yet Tim?

10th February 2016, 12:43 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	This has turned into a nightmare first I notice the seller was offering the same club under a different seller name. I reported this. The seller said it was not and that mine was being sent to me. On arrival it is not the club in the picture and clearly a tourist piece. So it goes on.

10th February 2016, 03:17 PM	#11
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Tim, sorry to hear of your bad experience. Hope you get your money back at least.