Mystery Dagger ID Help Needed

[Robert]

Hello Rich,
I agree that the guards fitment is not the best that I have seen either, but the quality workmanship of the blade with its inserted hardened edge I believe more than makes up for it. I have seen and owned many daggers from Southeast Asia both with and without this style of blade that originally were never fitted with a guard of any kind.

Best,
Robert

[Robert]

I seem to remember wavy bladed daggers from small ads in the back pages of Argosy and other similar magazines of the fifties. I think the hilts were spiral with a ball and claw pommel.

Hello Rick,
I not only remember the daggers you are talking about, but somewhere around here I still have one that I paid the grand total of $1.50 for in the late fifties. Most of these were of German manufacture (like the one I still have) but I believe some were of Japanese origin as well. I can with confidence say that the blade of this piece definitely does not come from one of those daggers.

Best,
Robert

P.S. I meant to add that if you look at the first two photos of the complete dagger above you will see one where the blade was just cleaned and one where it has received a vinegar etch. In the lower photos of the blade only you can clearly see the inserted hardened steel edge.

[Kmaddock]

Hi Robert

see this discussion below.

Carving is totally different but I see a lot of similarities in style
due to the hardness the carving is generally quiet primitive.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22655

when you rub the handle does it fee sort of oily, no residue just a greasy feel


Regards

Ken

[Richard G]

Wheat etc. carved on a handle I would normally associate with a bread knife.
Regards
Richard

[Ian]

Hi Robert:

Interesting dagger. I think the hilt likely does not depict wheat, but rather a seed pod with the seeds emerging from the pod. Wheat does not have a pod like this, so something else. The steel (?) ferrule does not look Filipino to me, and the brass disk might well be made from a polished coin (Does it have a slight rim to the edge? Hard to tell from the pics.).

No idea where it is from, but I don't think it is Filipino.

Regards,

Ian.

[Robert]

Sorry for my late response to the questions and comments that have been posted.

Ken,
The wood does not have an oily feel to it when being handled of rubbed. In fact it feels more like a piece of horn or a piece of burl of some type, but the grain is wrong.

Ian,
Thank you for your thoughts on this piece. The brass disc guard has been filed completely flat and shows no evidence of ever having a rim or stampings of any kind. As for the carving I am in agreement that it most likely does not represent a wheat stalk. A good friend has sent me an email suggesting that the carving could possibly depict a Ginger flower (photo below) right before the petals start folding out. The steel ferrule though unusual could have possibly been made from the necked down portion of an old larger caliber steel shell casing. I know that brass casings have been used for years to make knife fittings so why not use an old steel one if it is handy? Though the blade matches perfectly to ones used on some of the 19th/early 20th century Philippine daggers in my collection I am not suggesting that this piece is from there. I have no idea of where this piece is from.

Best,
Robert

[kronckew]

Carving looks just like a wheat seed-head. Suspect it's a marriage made with a bread-knife handle, cartridge head and a wavey dagger blade. kinda cool tho. needs a cool scabbard to go with it.

[Mel H]

Originally Posted by Richard G

Wheat etc. carved on a handle I would normally associate with a bread knife.
Regards
Richard

I do see a lot of elderly bread knives with this style of handle here in the north of England, more often made from pine.

[Battara]

I noticed that the median ridge does not really follow get contours of the waves/luks in the blade.

This makes me also think it is of a more recent manufacture.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Battara

I noticed that the median ridge does not really follow get contours of the waves/luks in the blade.

This makes me also think it is of a more recent manufacture.

Good point Jose. If you look at older gunong and older wavy Ilokano blades, the medial ridge clearly follows the contour of the wave. You can see this in an example Leif posted recently here: the small gunong on the left has nicely forged luk with a well-centered medial ridge.