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Old 30th August 2012, 06:40 PM   #1
fernando
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Default Dha for comments

Some arms collector from the neighborwood came around yesterday and left this example with me, for ID and comments.
Blade length 58 cms. Handle length 21 cms. Blade flat spine 8 m/m at forte and 2 m/m at tip. Weight 552 grams. The two outer sections and wirings of the handle cover are surely in silver and the central part in some 'braided' cord material that i am not able to identify.
I am not sure whether the handle interior is wood or bamboo, the orifice being either drilled or a natural hollow. Whatever secret contents that might having beeg hidden there, is gone .
Please Gentlemen, what do i have here ... type, provenance, age ?

Ah, almost forgot to tell, the blade is very sharp, judging by my bleeding finger, whilst picture taking .

.
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Last edited by fernando; 30th August 2012 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 31st August 2012, 11:31 AM   #2
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Hi 'Nando,
surprised 'Dha boys' have not replied ..... I believe this type is Burmese....nice Dha

All the best
David
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Old 31st August 2012, 03:14 PM   #3
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Agreed--Burmese. Looks like early 20th century to me.

As for the handle material, 'Nando, can't really tell from that photo. My inclination is bamboo.

More specifically, I believe this sword is Kachin (Jingpaw) and related/derived from that ethnic group's dao:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=kachin

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=kachin
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Old 31st August 2012, 05:46 PM   #4
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Thank you David,

Quote:
Originally Posted by katana
... surprised 'Dha boys' have not replied ...
Well, i guess Dha boys are like Mohicans ... there aren't many left .
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Old 31st August 2012, 05:56 PM   #5
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Thank you so much for your qualified input, Andrew. .
I'll be busy digesting the contents of those links.
I would never guess that the handle material could be bamboo. The thickness of the braided 'strings' is so fine that my guess would go for some kind of (rope) thread .
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Old 31st August 2012, 07:04 PM   #6
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'Nando, I was referring to the hollow wood core of the handle as bamboo.

The woven textile grip could be any number of materials, including cotton, linen, coconut fiber, etc.

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Old 31st August 2012, 07:06 PM   #7
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Oh, and there was an older thread discussing these exact weapons in the context of a "link" between Kachin dao and Burmese dha...can't seem to locate it, but will post when/if I do.
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Old 31st August 2012, 07:10 PM   #8
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Found it.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=kachin
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Old 2nd September 2012, 03:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
... I was referring to the hollow wood core of the handle as bamboo...
Sorry for my misinterpreting, Andrew .
Very hard (for me) to improve pictures. Looking again with a naked eye, there is too much texture in its profila to be wood. Also the hole is not concentric as that done with a drill. I will take for certain your inclination that it is bamboo.

.
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Old 2nd September 2012, 03:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
Grrreat stuff; thanks a million.
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Old 2nd September 2012, 05:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
Sorry for my misinterpreting, Andrew .
Very hard (for me) to improve pictures. Looking again with a naked eye, there is too much texture in its profila to be wood. Also the hole is not concentric as that done with a drill. I will take for certain your inclination that it is bamboo.

.
Hello Fernando,

yes, agree with Andrew, it seems to be bamboo.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 2nd September 2012, 07:35 PM   #12
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It is bamboo. Structure of the wood, the hole and the end part of the hilt. 100%.
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Old 2nd September 2012, 09:24 PM   #13
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Alright; bamboo it is .
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Old 2nd September 2012, 09:38 PM   #14
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While I suspect it is Kachin, I'm not sure it would necesarrily be Jinghpaw.
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Old 3rd September 2012, 06:24 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aiontay
While I suspect it is Kachin, I'm not sure it would necesarrily be Jinghpaw.
Same same yet different :-)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingpo_people
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Old 3rd September 2012, 06:34 AM   #16
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Nice dha by the way Fernado! I like the herring bone weave on the handle and the engraving on the handle is nicely done. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 3rd September 2012, 01:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aiontay
While I suspect it is Kachin, I'm not sure it would necesarrily be Jinghpaw.
Thanks; i will consider that .
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Old 3rd September 2012, 01:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathaniel
Nice dha by the way Fernado! I like the herring bone weave on the handle and the engraving on the handle is nicely done. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Nathaniel; for your words and for the Kachin girls link .
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Old 3rd September 2012, 01:16 PM   #19
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Say guys:
Any chance this sword is earlier than 20th century ?
... The silver patination is influencing me to think about (even if late) 19th century .
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Old 3rd September 2012, 02:44 PM   #20
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Default Pommel

Hello Fernando

This is the end of the one I recently posted. As you can see, it is almost identical to yours except that mine has been plugged.

I am not convinced that it is bamboo as the the wall thickness is much greater than I would expect.

Regards
Roy
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Old 3rd September 2012, 03:17 PM   #21
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Royston, I am even more certain that your's is bamboo--that "cell-like" structure viewing it from the distal end is a dead-giveaway. Some bamboo is quite thick...
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Old 3rd September 2012, 03:21 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
Say guys:
Any chance this sword is earlier than 20th century ?
... The silver patination is influencing me to think about (even if late) 19th century .
Possibly. My estimate was just that. The distinction of late 19th vs. early 20th c. is largely one without a real difference.

BTW, silver patination can be a difficult thing to base age estimates on--some silver alloys can develop dark, heavy patination very quickly...

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Old 3rd September 2012, 03:22 PM   #23
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There are types of bamboo that do not have a hollow core, so I would agree with Andrew .
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Old 3rd September 2012, 03:22 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royston
I am not convinced that it is bamboo as the the wall thickness is much greater than I would expect.

Regards
Roy

Hello Roy,

have a look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4093

Best regards,

Detlef
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Old 3rd September 2012, 03:38 PM   #25
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I have never seen thick walled bamboo like that. But I started Googling thick walled bamboo and found that it is common. Certain varieties like Bambusa burmanica (found in Thailand and Burma) have very thick walls. It's amazing how our interest in ethnographic weapons leads us into other areas!

Steve
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Old 3rd September 2012, 04:40 PM   #26
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OK Gents

I stand corrected on the wall thicknesses of bamboo. I'm too used to seeing the thin-walled types that we get here in the UK.

Detlef, your link appears to be about coconut, not bamboo. ( Nice pictures though )

Regards
Roy
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Old 3rd September 2012, 05:17 PM   #27
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Thumbs up Inevitable contamination

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferguson
... It's amazing how our interest in ethnographic weapons leads us into other areas!...
Absolutely.
I often tell people that a large (largest?) part of my present (insignificant) knowledge is due to arms collecting side efects.
... The launching base being this forum .
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Old 3rd September 2012, 05:32 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royston
Detlef, your link appears to be about coconut, not bamboo. ( Nice pictures though )

Regards
Roy
Oh, yes, my mistake! Remembered the structure which is very similar. Better I don't post just after wake up!
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Old 3rd September 2012, 05:32 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
...The distinction of late 19th vs. early 20th c. is largely one without a real difference...
In a mere counting way yes, you're right; but in certain other aspects ... means a lot .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
... BTW, silver patination can be a difficult thing to base age estimates on--some silver alloys can develop dark, heavy patination very quickly...
Sure thing; duly noted


.

Last edited by fernando; 4th September 2012 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 3rd September 2012, 06:04 PM   #30
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The woven part of the handle would be rattan, ie shredded palm leaf, some varieties produce very strong fibers.
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