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#1 |
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Join Date: May 2020
Location: Caucasus
Posts: 86
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Hello, long time lurker of the boards here but after coming into possession of this I decided to finally register. I'm excited to share what I have and know as well as looking to learn from you fine folks.
This rather plain rifle has a 31.5 inch damascus barrel with 8 groove rifling in .55 caliber. The bore is actually quite good with no pitting. As I've never seen a sling set up like this on any rifles of this sort, I believe the rings in the stock to be incorrect and probably a modern addition by someone who thought something was missing. It has some period repairs, such as replaced missing bone/ivory inlays with wood, brass cap covering the tang, and some kind of fabric acting as bedding for the barrel it seems. The ramrod I believe is also not original as it is mostly unfinished wood and fragile. It needs some cracks fixed as well. I'm hoping someone might be able to tell me something about the age and/or place of origin. I know this style of rifle was used from 17th century till 19th so it can be difficult to gauge. The hallmark on the lock is pretty worn but maybe it is familiar or legible to someone here? The hammer wont go to full cock and is VERY difficult to get close to the notch. EDIT: after cleaning the lock up a bit, it now easily goes to half cock and full cock. I look forward to and am grateful to any and all information, Thank you. Last edited by cyten; 10th June 2020 at 09:02 PM. |
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#2 |
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Join Date: May 2020
Location: Caucasus
Posts: 86
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The lock removed, some period repairs/replacements. Strange wood splice in the ramrod channel.
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#3 |
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
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Hi,
From what I see it's a very net gun, in very good condition. As you wrote the suspension rings are a late addition, probably also the big screws. The barrel bands are missing. The lock is typical from Ottoman TURKEY. The whole gun looks Turkish, the Balkans models are well known. As you wrote, it's difficult to give an age to a gun like this, without taking any risk I would say 1750-1850. I'm sure Rick will tell you more. Very nice gun Kubur |
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#4 |
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Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 153
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If you send a close-up of the mark on the lock I might be able to help
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#5 |
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Location: Caucasus
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Kwiatek, I really appreciate it! Unfortunately it is very worn and this is the clearest I can get.
Having no reference material, I can't even guess what it could be. |
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#6 | |
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Join Date: May 2020
Location: Caucasus
Posts: 86
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Are there any features that would tell more about the age or origin on a shishane? I've seen it mentioned on the board before that someone attributed theirs to being made in Kotor due to some special feature that I am not familiar with. |
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#7 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
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Please, note that your gun might have been used until the end of the 19th or 1900. As I said the rifles from the Balkans are very well known, the boyliya in Bulgaria is probably the most similar to your gun. The only thing to help for the origin will be the decoration, but i'm afraid to say that your gun is rather plain... I think your barrel is Turkish too. Can you post a photo of the sight? |
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#8 | |
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Join Date: May 2020
Location: Caucasus
Posts: 86
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Attached are the sights of my rifle. Any idea of when the "peep" sight became more in fashion for these over the more western barrel notch sight? I've seen both types used on these but the vast majority have been the peep hole. From the wonderful collection in Vienna I rarely recall any "standard" notch sights on the shishanes they had. |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,621
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Hi Cyten
That's a nice looking Ottoman Shishane. Likely made at one of the many gun making centers in the Balkans. Probably first half of the 19th Century. The Damascus barrel with the 2-point rear sight look very common Turkish. The 8 groove rifling is the most common I've seen on these rifled barrels. The lock is very common Turkish. (glad you got it working again) Even the pattern of the silver mounts. The mainsprings in these locks are very strong (a bit too strong in my opinion). But they are all made this way. I think the brass cover over the barrel tank is also a replacement. But a full or partial cover in this area is also a common styling feature with these guns. The round sling rings are likely a 20th Century replacement. But they look good on this gun. LOL There is actually a Thread about a year ago on this Forum that showed the correct way a leather sling was attached to the two slots with a clever knot. I think I saved the pic on my other lap top. So I will locate it and post here. Rick |
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#10 | |
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Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 153
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#11 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
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#12 |
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Join Date: May 2020
Location: Caucasus
Posts: 86
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double post
Last edited by cyten; 13th June 2020 at 07:55 AM. Reason: double post |
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#13 |
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Location: St. Louis, MO area.
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Hi Kubur
I totally agree. The locks, stocks, and barrels - of this type - are all Turkish designs. Even if many were made at one of the many gun shops in the Balkans, they were probably made under contract to the Ottoman Empire anyway. But yes, these shashanes and tufuks are originally of Turkish design I believe. Rick |
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#14 |
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Location: Caucasus
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In trying to do some online research, I came across THIS VIDEO from Antiques Road Show. I'd like the input of you folks on the "experts" assessment. Personally I took everything with a spoonful of salt after stating that this example was smoothbore when they just did a close up of the rifling. Though, being an amateur in this subject, who am I to doubt the other claims?
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#15 |
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Hi Cyten
Thanks for posting that video. First time I've ever seen it. Interesting. My personal (non-expert) opinion of the analyst's opinion: The gun is indeed of Turkish origin. And the stock design, decorations are very similar to other Turkish rifles from the period. Even the old silver decoration is of a similar pattern done by Turkish lock makers. But it is not 17th Century. It's more likely from the late 18th or early 19th Century. Also, as you note, the barrel is rifled, not smooth bore. (Wonder if he even bothered to look at the muzzle end ? LOL). Thanks again for posting. Rick |
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#16 |
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Location: Caucasus
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I've come across several articles from Bulgaria stating that (in Bulgarian) the town of Sliva was a major manufacturer of (specifically) shishane rifles, no mention of boyliya.
I also came across this shishane with the barrel marked by a maker in Vienna! |
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