What's the big deal about Kirk Narduban?

ariel · 16th December 2006, 05:37 PM

The mechanical qualities of crucible steel ( wootz) have been already discussed extensively.
No doubt, it is beautiful. Particularly, everybody is very excited about the blades with Kirk or Kirk/Rose patterns. However, these are just embellishments. The swordmaker chiselled straight lines alone or interspersed them with chiselled circles and continued hammering the blade to get the above patterns. Of course, that added time to the manufacture of the blade, but no additional positive mechanical properties ( if anything, it might have conceivably only weakened the blade).
These patterns are not much different from chiselled panels, koftgari inscriptions, etched or incised patterns etc: they are just meant to make the blade prettier, no more.
Why are we going ga-ga every time we see the Kirk-ed blade? What is so special about this particular embellishment?

Tim Simmons · 16th December 2006, 07:16 PM

Something that has always puzzled me.

spiral · 16th December 2006, 10:01 PM

The symbolism of the 40 steps to heaven or somesuch to the more devout belivers was perhaps originaly a factor?

A man can be rather a follower of fashion on occasion.

Spiral

ham · 18th December 2006, 12:15 AM

Perhaps because it requires a great deal more skill and knowledge of technology than any other technique in sword-making. Consequently, it is far rarer.

Ham

Jeff D · 18th December 2006, 01:46 AM

Beauty as always is in the eye of the beholder. This topic also reminds me of a question. What is the earliest date that we see the "Kirk Narduban" formation. Even though Kindi may have talked of the pattern, I have only seen rudimentary formations on blades dated to the early 17th century, and well formed formations by the late 17th century. Does any know of any earlier?

All the best
Jeff

Jens Nordlunde · 18th December 2006, 04:23 PM

Beauty as always is in the eye of the beholder. Well said Jeff

.

I can’t answer your question, although I have a feeling that the technique is older than 17th century, but maybe Ann can help us, as she has been excavating in the area of Marv.

Jens

Ferguson · 18th December 2006, 04:23 PM

Perhaps the same reason that I like looking at a beautiful woman?

She may not be more worthy, or useful or good. But I will still enjoy looking.

Steve

16th December 2006, 05:37 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	What's the big deal about Kirk Narduban? The mechanical qualities of crucible steel ( wootz) have been already discussed extensively. No doubt, it is beautiful. Particularly, everybody is very excited about the blades with Kirk or Kirk/Rose patterns. However, these are just embellishments. The swordmaker chiselled straight lines alone or interspersed them with chiselled circles and continued hammering the blade to get the above patterns. Of course, that added time to the manufacture of the blade, but no additional positive mechanical properties ( if anything, it might have conceivably only weakened the blade). These patterns are not much different from chiselled panels, koftgari inscriptions, etched or incised patterns etc: they are just meant to make the blade prettier, no more. Why are we going ga-ga every time we see the Kirk-ed blade? What is so special about this particular embellishment?

18th December 2006, 04:23 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Beauty as always is in the eye of the beholder. Well said Jeff. I can’t answer your question, although I have a feeling that the technique is older than 17th century, but maybe Ann can help us, as she has been excavating in the area of Marv. Jens

16th December 2006, 07:16 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Something that has always puzzled me.

16th December 2006, 10:01 PM	#3
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	The symbolism of the 40 steps to heaven or somesuch to the more devout belivers was perhaps originaly a factor? A man can be rather a follower of fashion on occasion. Spiral

18th December 2006, 12:15 AM	#4
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	Perhaps because it requires a great deal more skill and knowledge of technology than any other technique in sword-making. Consequently, it is far rarer. Ham

18th December 2006, 01:46 AM	#5
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Beauty as always is in the eye of the beholder. This topic also reminds me of a question. What is the earliest date that we see the "Kirk Narduban" formation. Even though Kindi may have talked of the pattern, I have only seen rudimentary formations on blades dated to the early 17th century, and well formed formations by the late 17th century. Does any know of any earlier? All the best Jeff

18th December 2006, 04:23 PM	#7
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Perhaps the same reason that I like looking at a beautiful woman? She may not be more worthy, or useful or good. But I will still enjoy looking. Steve