silver mounted jambia

fernando · 25th August 2005, 06:36 PM

Hello Gentlemen
I just bought this jambia, with hilt and scabbard in what looks to be propper silver. I wonder if this is not just a tourist souvenir, due to the somewhat dark patina of the silver, and to the stifness of the leather cover in the scabbard back, like having being long sweated against the body. But naturally this could be all my fantasy, as i am an igorant on these weapons. Also the dotted inscription in the pommel back is beyhond my reach.
The seller said it was brought by someone, from Libya. Is this plausible?
Any help woulb be so much wellcome.

Tim Simmons · 25th August 2005, 08:19 PM

Hello Fernando,
I do not know much about these except there are a lot here in the UK as we had 'interests' in the Yemen. Yours may be from Libya but the silver work looks Yemen to me, it also has a reasonable blade. So many here in the UK even quite old looking ones, often with rather fancy scabbards have nasty tourist looking blades. I have not got one of these, I have not seen the right one. Tim

ariel · 25th August 2005, 08:39 PM

This one is old, no doubt.
It is a Gusbi Jambiya from Hadramaut, South Yemen. Not a "run of the mill " finding! Congratulations!

derek · 25th August 2005, 09:20 PM

Hi,
I agree with Ariel. Yemeni and probably fairly old, definitely not made to be sold in a tourist shop.

They still make fantastic jambiyas like this today, though I have only seen them offered by Yemeni (from Sanaa) sellers at the Dubai Shopping Festival. I never ventured to Yemen as it wasn't the safest place for a yank. Anyway, I saw more than a few hundred examples and the only way I could tell the new from the old was the blade - another aspect of yours that looks older.

I notice a little hole in the leather on the back. Is there a small silver coin there with an incsription?

Carter may be able to read the back of the grip.

Nice find.
-d

Michael Blalock · 26th August 2005, 08:55 PM

Based on the shape of the grip my guess would be the Najran area of Saudi Arabia.

fernando · 27th August 2005, 07:12 PM

Thank you so much for the precious info. It would still be great to figure out the meaning of the arab engraving on the grip.
I would be so much obliged for help in this area.

Aqtai · 27th August 2005, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Thank you so much for the precious info. It would still be great to figure out the meaning of the arab engraving on the grip.
I would be so much obliged for help in this area.

The 1st 2 words say "Omar 'Abdallah". I can't read the 3rd word.

fernando · 28th August 2005, 10:41 AM

Thanks a lot, Aqtai.
I will try and take a clearer picture of the last word, then i will request your kind help again. Maybe this last part is the family name, either from the owner or the maker ?! This would be rather interesting to know.
Thanks again

Aqtai · 28th August 2005, 03:25 PM

You're welcome. Congratulations on aquiring a beautiful weapon BTW.

fernando · 30th August 2005, 05:07 PM

Hi Gentlemen
I have a new situation here, and i kindly require your members expertize info.
As i found i could get no better defininition for the engraving on the grip, for the help of Aqtai on the third word/name, i noticed that the blade tang was fixed into the grip with silver wedges. One of these wedges is folded out, showing some markings in it. To my eyes this doesn't seem to be arabic, looking more geometrical, like hebreu. Mind you, i am influenced by what i read about yemen resident jews having been the superior silver and gold artisans, including janbiyya hilts and scabbards.
Could you Aqtai, confirm this is arabic ?
Can other forum members tell me what language this could be written on ?
Is it the wright assessment, the inscription on the pommel being the owners name, and the symbols on the blade wedge being the maker's marks?
Thank you so much for help.

Rivkin · 30th August 2005, 09:18 PM

that definitely looks like hebrew to me. lamed with "a" wovel, wav,nun?,chet/he?,???.

One should bear in mind that hebrew for "secular use" is written differently by different communities, it's ok that small signature on metal is much more "squarish" and simplistic than the fonts one can find in books.

Another expanation is that it's an imitation of really old arabic (nabatean or "south arabian script"), or may be even arameic, but in my opinion it's hebrew - nabatean is dead (unless this blade is at least 1000 years old ?), and arameic is not characteristic to yemen.

It's really a puzzling writing, well hidden as well...
P.S. One more thing - in my experience sometimes _very_ illiterate arabic tend to be squarish and unlike all other arabic one can see...So I would wait for experts on arabic to come in and evaluate the signature.

Tim Simmons · 30th August 2005, 09:24 PM

If it is silver it must be very low grade, silver does not tarnish green. Tim

Battara · 30th August 2005, 10:44 PM

Yes it is definitely Hebrew. Artzi's Hebrew is better than mine. Good probability of Jews in Yemen and their silver artistry. Also, most likely low grade silver, or the part that is not seen much could be in white metal to lower costs, soldered to the rest of the silver work.

fernando · 31st August 2005, 01:25 PM

Thank you all.
I think the greennish efect comes from the bizare reaction of the digital camera coulor definition, maybe because the pictures were not taken with
natural light. The only green i actually see, is some verdigris in the seam soldering. I also appreciated the scabbard interior, as its two parts were loose, and i had to refix them; to me, it looks and bends like silver sheet, rather than white brass or alpaca.
I will take it to a local jewelry shop friend, for appreciation, as this is a point i wish to know for sure.
Needless to say i am already deeply pleased with the findings on the arabic owners name and probable hebrew maker's marks.
Naturally I will be happier if further coments come in.
Thanks again

25th August 2005, 06:36 PM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	silver mounted jambia Hello Gentlemen I just bought this jambia, with hilt and scabbard in what looks to be propper silver. I wonder if this is not just a tourist souvenir, due to the somewhat dark patina of the silver, and to the stifness of the leather cover in the scabbard back, like having being long sweated against the body. But naturally this could be all my fantasy, as i am an igorant on these weapons. Also the dotted inscription in the pommel back is beyhond my reach. The seller said it was brought by someone, from Libya. Is this plausible? Any help woulb be so much wellcome. Attached Images

30th August 2005, 05:07 PM	#10
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Hi Gentlemen I have a new situation here, and i kindly require your members expertize info. As i found i could get no better defininition for the engraving on the grip, for the help of Aqtai on the third word/name, i noticed that the blade tang was fixed into the grip with silver wedges. One of these wedges is folded out, showing some markings in it. To my eyes this doesn't seem to be arabic, looking more geometrical, like hebreu. Mind you, i am influenced by what i read about yemen resident jews having been the superior silver and gold artisans, including janbiyya hilts and scabbards. Could you Aqtai, confirm this is arabic ? Can other forum members tell me what language this could be written on ? Is it the wright assessment, the inscription on the pommel being the owners name, and the symbols on the blade wedge being the maker's marks? Thank you so much for help. Attached Images

31st August 2005, 01:25 PM	#14
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Thank you all. I think the greennish efect comes from the bizare reaction of the digital camera coulor definition, maybe because the pictures were not taken with natural light. The only green i actually see, is some verdigris in the seam soldering. I also appreciated the scabbard interior, as its two parts were loose, and i had to refix them; to me, it looks and bends like silver sheet, rather than white brass or alpaca. I will take it to a local jewelry shop friend, for appreciation, as this is a point i wish to know for sure. Needless to say i am already deeply pleased with the findings on the arabic owners name and probable hebrew maker's marks. Naturally I will be happier if further coments come in. Thanks again Attached Images

25th August 2005, 08:19 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Hello Fernando, I do not know much about these except there are a lot here in the UK as we had 'interests' in the Yemen. Yours may be from Libya but the silver work looks Yemen to me, it also has a reasonable blade. So many here in the UK even quite old looking ones, often with rather fancy scabbards have nasty tourist looking blades. I have not got one of these, I have not seen the right one. Tim

25th August 2005, 08:39 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	This one is old, no doubt. It is a Gusbi Jambiya from Hadramaut, South Yemen. Not a "run of the mill " finding! Congratulations!

25th August 2005, 09:20 PM	#4
derek Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 215	Hi, I agree with Ariel. Yemeni and probably fairly old, definitely not made to be sold in a tourist shop. They still make fantastic jambiyas like this today, though I have only seen them offered by Yemeni (from Sanaa) sellers at the Dubai Shopping Festival. I never ventured to Yemen as it wasn't the safest place for a yank. Anyway, I saw more than a few hundred examples and the only way I could tell the new from the old was the blade - another aspect of yours that looks older. I notice a little hole in the leather on the back. Is there a small silver coin there with an incsription? Carter may be able to read the back of the grip. Nice find. -d

26th August 2005, 08:55 PM	#5
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	Based on the shape of the grip my guess would be the Najran area of Saudi Arabia.

27th August 2005, 07:12 PM	#6
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Thank you so much for the precious info. It would still be great to figure out the meaning of the arab engraving on the grip. I would be so much obliged for help in this area.

28th August 2005, 10:41 AM	#8
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Thanks a lot, Aqtai. I will try and take a clearer picture of the last word, then i will request your kind help again. Maybe this last part is the family name, either from the owner or the maker ?! This would be rather interesting to know. Thanks again

28th August 2005, 03:25 PM	#9
Aqtai Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Merseyside, UK Posts: 222	You're welcome. Congratulations on aquiring a beautiful weapon BTW.

30th August 2005, 09:18 PM	#11
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	that definitely looks like hebrew to me. lamed with "a" wovel, wav,nun?,chet/he?,???. One should bear in mind that hebrew for "secular use" is written differently by different communities, it's ok that small signature on metal is much more "squarish" and simplistic than the fonts one can find in books. Another expanation is that it's an imitation of really old arabic (nabatean or "south arabian script"), or may be even arameic, but in my opinion it's hebrew - nabatean is dead (unless this blade is at least 1000 years old ?), and arameic is not characteristic to yemen. It's really a puzzling writing, well hidden as well... P.S. One more thing - in my experience sometimes _very_ illiterate arabic tend to be squarish and unlike all other arabic one can see...So I would wait for experts on arabic to come in and evaluate the signature.

30th August 2005, 09:24 PM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	If it is silver it must be very low grade, silver does not tarnish green. Tim

30th August 2005, 10:44 PM	#13
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Yes it is definitely Hebrew. Artzi's Hebrew is better than mine. Good probability of Jews in Yemen and their silver artistry. Also, most likely low grade silver, or the part that is not seen much could be in white metal to lower costs, soldered to the rest of the silver work.