Cuspidor

Sajen · 6th December 2009, 03:20 PM

Hello All,

I just get a rare cuspidor from Java (used for betel chewing) with an interesting detail you found also on pendoks from Java. Here the pictures for sharing.
Like every time all comments are welcome.

sajen

Sajen · 6th December 2009, 03:23 PM

One question I have by this: how is this double headed peacock called and have it a special background?

A. G. Maisey · 6th December 2009, 11:21 PM

This bird form is an element of design in a number of motifs, you will find variations of it in many of the semen motifs such as semen merak, semen wregu, and semen lungka.

Each motif is made up of various elements, and I do not know the name of each individual element in each traditional motif. There are hundreds of traditional motifs, and even more design elements within each motif. The naming of each design element, and any story attached to that design element would be a very specialised field of study, and one that I have not seen illuminated even in specialised texts on the subject.

The other notable design element in this cuspidor is the repetitive triangular tumpal motif.

Probably the best references for Indonesian design motifs are books dealing with batik.

The tumpal motif is said to represent plenty, by its association with the pyramid rice mounds at slametans --- it is a very old motif, and the various semen motifs are symbolic of a garden.

Sajen · 6th December 2009, 11:35 PM

Thank you Alan. This is a adequate answer.

Regards,

Detlef

fernando · 7th December 2009, 12:38 AM

Hi guys,
I saw the thread title and just popped in to show surprise (and joy) in knowing how this thing is called; cuspidor is a pure portuguese term and means ... spitter.
Sorry to have bothered you if you already knew it; i didn't

.
Fernando

Sajen · 7th December 2009, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi guys,
I saw the thread title and just popped in to show surprise (and joy) in knowing how this thing is called; cuspidor is a pure portuguese term and means ... spitter.
Sorry to have bothered you if you already knew it; i didn't

.
Fernando

Hi Fernando,

it is a spitter! When you chewing betel it is like you use chewing tobacco, you have to spit every time.

Detlef

Amuk Murugul · 7th December 2009, 03:24 AM

Hullo everybody,

Just at a cursory glance:

- the Soenda refer to the spitoon above as: tampolong/pangloedahan/pangidon.

- the wajang motif: Gatot Katja/ Ghatot Kacha, son of Bhima.

- the peafowl motif: Karonsih (actually represents a pair of peafowl making love, symbolising the legendary lovers Galoeh Tjandra Kirana & Pandji Asamara).

- other motifs look like those on batik ( I seem to recognise a potatoe one).

Best,

asomotif · 7th December 2009, 06:43 AM

In dutch we call this kwispedoor, which is derived directly from the portugese word.
Sailors from the VOC picked up this habit from the portugese in the orient.

A. G. Maisey · 7th December 2009, 12:35 PM

In my earlier response I mentioned the bird design element only as a bird.

I did this deliberately, because I did not wish to create any controversy, nor to go too deeply into perhaps irrelevant matters.

In fact, the bird shown on the cuspidor, and the bird shown on the pendok are totally different design elements.

The bird on the cuspidor is a representation of garuda.

The bird on the pendok is a representation of a peacock.

Why?

In Indonesian art the peacock is identified by two factors:- it has a crest, and it has spots in its tail feathers; either or both of these factors will point to either a peacock or a burung hong (phoenix), the phoenix is distinguished from the peacock by a longer and more flowing tail that tends to be less cohesive than the peacock's tail. Sometimes to distinguish one from the other is extremely difficult.

The bird on the cuspidor is a garuda. A garuda can be represented by only a single wing ( the "lar"), or a pair of wings ( the "sawat"), or a pair of wings and a tail (also "sawat"), by a pair of wings and a tail and one head, or two heads. Where two heads are shown there is no certainty as to the original meaning, but it has been hypothesised that the two heads symbolise that the garuda is not bound to only the upper world. The garuda was the mount of Vishnu, and occurs frequently as an element in Indonesian design.

To complicate matters further, it is not unusual to have the sawat shown with characteristics that are normally associated with the peacock, even though the sawat is symbolic of the garuda.

The peacock in Indonesian art is a design element that goes back to the bronze period, and representations have been found on bronze age artifacts. In the Hindu period the peacock was representative of the mount of the god of war, Kartikeya, also known as Skanda. However, this element also occurs in Chinese art, and it probably entered later Indonesian art from both sources. Where and how it is portrayed would give some indication as to source, for instance, in North Coast Jawa design it would be reasonable to associate the peacock with a Chinese source, but in a cultural centre which drew upon the Hindu-Javanese period, as was the case with Jogjakarta, the association would be with the original Hindu-Javanese intent. Thus, its inclusion in a semen motif used to decorate a keris pendok is entirely suitable because of the martial association. I believe that at one time the sawat was the exclusive prerogative of the Sultan of Jogjakarta.

My sources for the above explanation are Van Der Hoop, and personal informants such as silver craftsmen and batik workers over a very extended period.

Amuk Murugul, I find your post interesting for a couple of reasons, firstly, it would appear that in Sunda there is a legend associated with this two headed peacock and that the design element has a name---karonsih, and the legend goes in a completely different direction that what I have understood to be the symbolism of this element.

Secondly, you have been able to positively identify gatot kaca, a feat which I must admit is totally beyond my ability from this representation.

I have noted that all your spellings use the old Dutch forms which have not been used since 1972, so I am guessing that your reference is an old publication.

Would you be kind enough to share the name of your reference with us?

It would appear that in Jawa this information has not been known for a very long time, so preservation of earlier sources becomes quite important under such circumstances.

David · 7th December 2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

- the peafowl motif: Karonsih (actually represents a pair of peafowl making love, symbolising the legendary lovers Galoeh Tjandra Kirana & Pandji Asamara).

The only applicable reference i could find to the word "Karonsih" was that it is the name of a dance dedicated to these two lovers. Here is a video of that dance. There is a Dutch explanation that i can only understand part of, but i don't see any reference to peacocks. Perhaps our Dutch speakers can find some clues in it. That said, the movements and costume of the princess has some elements that could remind one of that bird.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jk_aPgcNIo

A. G. Maisey · 7th December 2009, 09:15 PM

Yes David, there is a dance called "karonsih", and its story is of the love between Galuh Candra Kirana ( Dyah Sekartaji) and Panji Asmara Bangun. Galuh was from the old East Jawa kingdom of Kediri and Panji Asmara was from Jenggala. Its a dance that is often performed at weddings. My understanding is that this is not an old traditional dance, but only dates from the late 1950's and was created by Pak Maridi (or Mariti ?) from the ASKI in Solo.

Karonsih is not an uncommon word in Jawa, I know somebody with that name, and I've seen a street or a business with that name, but I do not know the meaning of the word.

I find it interesting that a common Javanese element of design should have this name in the neighbouring area of Sunda, I also find it interesting that Pak Amuk's source of information is so good that he could identify Gatot Kaca from image we have. The fact that he has used pre-1972 spellings would seem to indicate that he has used a pre-1972 source. Since there was not much in the way of Indonesian cultural literature published between the late 1930's and 1972, it is very likely that his source predates WWII, which takes us back into the colonial period. My principal interest here is the source of Amuk Murugul's information as it seems to be remarkably detailed and informative, and I would like to access it, if possible.

asomotif · 7th December 2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

There is a Dutch explanation that i can only understand part of, but i don't see any reference to peacocks. Perhaps our Dutch speakers can find some clues in it.

David,

Post the text, and I will see if I can translate it into logical english

David · 8th December 2009, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

David,

Post the text, and I will see if I can translate it into logical english

Just watch the video. The text runs along the top as the dance progresses.

asomotif · 8th December 2009, 06:40 AM

Quote:

The text runs along the top as the dance progresses.

Ok, not a very revealing translation I think.

Karonsih is a dance about two lovers.
Prince Panjia Asmara Bangu and princes Sekat Taji are seprated by war.
He is called to defend his country far away (abroad?)
The princes stays behind wondering if she will ever see him alive.
One day the prince returns unexpected.
The greet eachother intimately and enjoy each others presence.
They promise to be faitfull to each other and live long an happily ever after.

David · 8th December 2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Ok, not a very revealing translation I think.

Yes, i see what you mean. No line about how we love each other so much that we will now turn into a two-headed peacock or something like that.

But at least you got to watch a pretty dance and get yourself some culture.

A. G. Maisey · 8th December 2009, 12:40 PM

David, this is a well known folk tale. Its been worked for the dance, and as I have said, only fairly recently.

The actual name "karonsih" I know as a name only and don't know the precise meaning, but the word is probably composed of "ka", "ron", & "sih". "Sih" means love or favour, "ron" is leaf, "ka" is probably an abbreviation of "saka" which means "from" or "because of" , so "karonsih" probably carries a meaning of something like "because of love", but I'm only guessing.

I guess its possible that a two headed peacock as a design motif could attract popular imagination and be given the name "karonsih", but my guess for the original intent of the two heads would be that it was to designate something a little more of a socio-religious nature, as in the two headed garudas.

Still, my interest is firmly focussed on Amuk Murugul's source and his archaic spelling. I really would like to know the place where he got information that I feel is pretty detailed, most especially in the ID of Gatot Koco.

6th December 2009, 03:20 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,485	Cuspidor Hello All, I just get a rare cuspidor from Java (used for betel chewing) with an interesting detail you found also on pendoks from Java. Here the pictures for sharing. Like every time all comments are welcome. sajen Attached Images

7th December 2009, 06:43 AM	#8
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	Cuspidor / Kwispedoor In dutch we call this kwispedoor, which is derived directly from the portugese word. Sailors from the VOC picked up this habit from the portugese in the orient.

6th December 2009, 03:23 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,485	One question I have by this: how is this double headed peacock called and have it a special background?

6th December 2009, 11:21 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	This bird form is an element of design in a number of motifs, you will find variations of it in many of the semen motifs such as semen merak, semen wregu, and semen lungka. Each motif is made up of various elements, and I do not know the name of each individual element in each traditional motif. There are hundreds of traditional motifs, and even more design elements within each motif. The naming of each design element, and any story attached to that design element would be a very specialised field of study, and one that I have not seen illuminated even in specialised texts on the subject. The other notable design element in this cuspidor is the repetitive triangular tumpal motif. Probably the best references for Indonesian design motifs are books dealing with batik. The tumpal motif is said to represent plenty, by its association with the pyramid rice mounds at slametans --- it is a very old motif, and the various semen motifs are symbolic of a garden.

6th December 2009, 11:35 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,485	Thank you Alan. This is a adequate answer. Regards, Detlef

7th December 2009, 12:38 AM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,641	Hi guys, I saw the thread title and just popped in to show surprise (and joy) in knowing how this thing is called; cuspidor is a pure portuguese term and means ... spitter. Sorry to have bothered you if you already knew it; i didn't . Fernando

7th December 2009, 03:24 AM	#7
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 457	Hullo everybody, Just at a cursory glance: - the Soenda refer to the spitoon above as: tampolong/pangloedahan/pangidon. - the wajang motif: Gatot Katja/ Ghatot Kacha, son of Bhima. - the peafowl motif: Karonsih (actually represents a pair of peafowl making love, symbolising the legendary lovers Galoeh Tjandra Kirana & Pandji Asamara). - other motifs look like those on batik ( I seem to recognise a potatoe one). Best,

7th December 2009, 12:35 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	In my earlier response I mentioned the bird design element only as a bird. I did this deliberately, because I did not wish to create any controversy, nor to go too deeply into perhaps irrelevant matters. In fact, the bird shown on the cuspidor, and the bird shown on the pendok are totally different design elements. The bird on the cuspidor is a representation of garuda. The bird on the pendok is a representation of a peacock. Why? In Indonesian art the peacock is identified by two factors:- it has a crest, and it has spots in its tail feathers; either or both of these factors will point to either a peacock or a burung hong (phoenix), the phoenix is distinguished from the peacock by a longer and more flowing tail that tends to be less cohesive than the peacock's tail. Sometimes to distinguish one from the other is extremely difficult. The bird on the cuspidor is a garuda. A garuda can be represented by only a single wing ( the "lar"), or a pair of wings ( the "sawat"), or a pair of wings and a tail (also "sawat"), by a pair of wings and a tail and one head, or two heads. Where two heads are shown there is no certainty as to the original meaning, but it has been hypothesised that the two heads symbolise that the garuda is not bound to only the upper world. The garuda was the mount of Vishnu, and occurs frequently as an element in Indonesian design. To complicate matters further, it is not unusual to have the sawat shown with characteristics that are normally associated with the peacock, even though the sawat is symbolic of the garuda. The peacock in Indonesian art is a design element that goes back to the bronze period, and representations have been found on bronze age artifacts. In the Hindu period the peacock was representative of the mount of the god of war, Kartikeya, also known as Skanda. However, this element also occurs in Chinese art, and it probably entered later Indonesian art from both sources. Where and how it is portrayed would give some indication as to source, for instance, in North Coast Jawa design it would be reasonable to associate the peacock with a Chinese source, but in a cultural centre which drew upon the Hindu-Javanese period, as was the case with Jogjakarta, the association would be with the original Hindu-Javanese intent. Thus, its inclusion in a semen motif used to decorate a keris pendok is entirely suitable because of the martial association. I believe that at one time the sawat was the exclusive prerogative of the Sultan of Jogjakarta. My sources for the above explanation are Van Der Hoop, and personal informants such as silver craftsmen and batik workers over a very extended period. Amuk Murugul, I find your post interesting for a couple of reasons, firstly, it would appear that in Sunda there is a legend associated with this two headed peacock and that the design element has a name---karonsih, and the legend goes in a completely different direction that what I have understood to be the symbolism of this element. Secondly, you have been able to positively identify gatot kaca, a feat which I must admit is totally beyond my ability from this representation. I have noted that all your spellings use the old Dutch forms which have not been used since 1972, so I am guessing that your reference is an old publication. Would you be kind enough to share the name of your reference with us? It would appear that in Jawa this information has not been known for a very long time, so preservation of earlier sources becomes quite important under such circumstances.

7th December 2009, 09:15 PM	#11
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Yes David, there is a dance called "karonsih", and its story is of the love between Galuh Candra Kirana ( Dyah Sekartaji) and Panji Asmara Bangun. Galuh was from the old East Jawa kingdom of Kediri and Panji Asmara was from Jenggala. Its a dance that is often performed at weddings. My understanding is that this is not an old traditional dance, but only dates from the late 1950's and was created by Pak Maridi (or Mariti ?) from the ASKI in Solo. Karonsih is not an uncommon word in Jawa, I know somebody with that name, and I've seen a street or a business with that name, but I do not know the meaning of the word. I find it interesting that a common Javanese element of design should have this name in the neighbouring area of Sunda, I also find it interesting that Pak Amuk's source of information is so good that he could identify Gatot Kaca from image we have. The fact that he has used pre-1972 spellings would seem to indicate that he has used a pre-1972 source. Since there was not much in the way of Indonesian cultural literature published between the late 1930's and 1972, it is very likely that his source predates WWII, which takes us back into the colonial period. My principal interest here is the source of Amuk Murugul's information as it seems to be remarkably detailed and informative, and I would like to access it, if possible.

8th December 2009, 12:40 PM	#16
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	David, this is a well known folk tale. Its been worked for the dance, and as I have said, only fairly recently. The actual name "karonsih" I know as a name only and don't know the precise meaning, but the word is probably composed of "ka", "ron", & "sih". "Sih" means love or favour, "ron" is leaf, "ka" is probably an abbreviation of "saka" which means "from" or "because of" , so "karonsih" probably carries a meaning of something like "because of love", but I'm only guessing. I guess its possible that a two headed peacock as a design motif could attract popular imagination and be given the name "karonsih", but my guess for the original intent of the two heads would be that it was to designate something a little more of a socio-religious nature, as in the two headed garudas. Still, my interest is firmly focussed on Amuk Murugul's source and his archaic spelling. I really would like to know the place where he got information that I feel is pretty detailed, most especially in the ID of Gatot Koco.