Indian sword

Freddy · 23rd May 2007, 07:53 PM

I know, I'm mostly interested in African weapons.

But I saw this one and couldn't let it go

.........I'm just weak !

It's an Indian sword, of that I'm sure. Probably a 'tulwar' or 'talwar'. It has a wooden sheath covered with leather.
The handle is made of braided iron wire with an engraved handprotection.
The blade is very sharp and made of some kind of laminated steel.

Total length is about 86 cm.

There's something missing at the top of the handle. Could anyone tell me what should be there ? I'm also interested in its origin.

And last question : is it possible to get the missing piece.

Freddy · 23rd May 2007, 07:55 PM

Andrew · 23rd May 2007, 08:18 PM

Freddy, I don't think that's Indian. It's a piso podang from Aceh, Sumatra.

Here's a nice article by RhysMichael (John Crosby): http://home.comcast.net/~jtcrosby/Aceh.html

Looks quite nice, too.

Henk · 23rd May 2007, 08:22 PM

Andrew, you hit the nail. Congrats Freddy, with this beauty.

Freddy · 23rd May 2007, 08:32 PM

So it's Indonesian ? In fact, the person I bought this one from had two other swords which I could identify as Indonesian : a mandau and a hunting sword with the inscription 'Tjikr'

I found some info on this last knife on this forum : http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=tjikeroeh

In fact, here's a picture of the lot :

ariel · 23rd May 2007, 08:34 PM

Sorry, Andrew and Henk, not Piso Podang; just Pedang Type 1 as per our own expert Albert's book

I am intrigued by the pommel, though: it is, indeed, hollow like in Piso. I think it is an artefact of the broken handguard.
Very nice!

Andrew · 23rd May 2007, 08:46 PM

I don't have Albert's book with me, Ariel, but JT's article indicates this is, more specifically, a peudeueng peusangan with a hulu meu apet.

(At least I got the origin and half the name correct.

).

Jens Nordlunde · 23rd May 2007, 09:44 PM

It is not Indian, and what the other members have written sounds right to me, congratulations

. Funny really, that so 'relativly' little difference of the hilt, makes the sword quite another sword of origin. So watch out for details.
I think you did well Andrew

.

carlos · 23rd May 2007, 10:00 PM

VERY BEAUTIFUL SWORD, IT´S POSSIBLE THAN THIS TYPE OF SWORD WILL BE MY NEXT OBJECTIVE.
CONGRATULATION!!
AH IS THIS SWORD TO SELL?

REGARDS
CARLOS

Flavio · 23rd May 2007, 11:18 PM

Congratulations Freddy for the Pedang 1!!! But is the handle of the mongelima sword made of ivory? Thanks

RhysMichael · 24th May 2007, 12:16 AM

A nice sword, definitely Aceh and they come from time to time with a pattern welded blade. The one I have with a pattern welded blade came from Artzi. It is called a pedang type 1 and also peudeueng pasangan , sikin peusangan, sikin pasagan, pedang, poedeung. There are so many dialects in that region that it gets really confusing. I use peudeueng as I beleive that to be the Aceh term for it. The hilt is called a hulu meu apet and should have a spike similar but smaller than is found on a firangi. Congrats on a good find.

utami is in that part of the world and has some connections with Aceh smiths. I do not know if they can make a replacement part for you but its sure worth asking. Phillip Tom may be another resource for it

freddy if you get a chance I would appreciate some better pictures of the scabbard to peudeung if you ever get a chance

flavio the handle of the mongelima sword looks to be a similar to some seen on burmese swords. Maybe a boars tooth ? but just a guess.

Andrew thanks for the kind words but the article is a compilation of information shared on this forum with me. So the credit should go to all those here who were so willing to share.

Andrew · 24th May 2007, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhysMichael

Andrew thanks for the kind words but the article is a compilation of information shared on this forum with me. So the credit should go to all those here who were so willing to share.

You're too modest, John.

Assembling the generously shared information from here or other sources can be a tedious and daunting task.

With your permission, I'd like to ask Lee to host a copy of your article on the EEWRS resource page.

kai · 24th May 2007, 06:56 AM

Hello John,

Quote:

flavio the handle of the mongelima sword looks to be a similar to some seen on burmese swords. Maybe a boars tooth ? but just a guess.

The Mongelima sword is the one at the bottom of the pic.

The "hunting sword" seems to have a boars teeth hilt.

Some pics from both sides of the Mandau would be nice, too.

Is there a mark/inscription at the base of that "letter opener," Freddy?

Regards,
Kai

Freddy · 24th May 2007, 07:37 AM

Kai, I guess you mean the knife with the curved blade.

It has a mark, but it's nothing I could read. But I can say this : it's entirely made of bronze and quite heavy.

The African sword was used by the following tribes : Boa, Hanga, Angba, Mba en Benge, all from Congo. It has an ivory handle, but unfortunately it was a later addition.....and a bad one. It consist of a hollow piece of ivory filled with plaster

Flavio · 24th May 2007, 04:17 PM

Thank you Freddy. It'a a very shame! A beautiful Mongelima blade with this bad restoration

Freddy · 25th May 2007, 05:13 PM

Here is a pic of the knife with curved blade. It's entirely made of bronze. I think it's some kind of paperweight. Nicely made, though.

Freddy · 25th May 2007, 05:26 PM

As requested : here are some pics of the sheath. It consists of two flat wooden pieces covered with leather. On the front the sheath shows a middle rib.

kai · 25th May 2007, 10:11 PM

Hello Freddy,

Quote:

Here is a pic of the knife with curved blade. It's entirely made of bronze. I think it's some kind of paperweight. Nicely made, though.

Yeah, quite a lot of effort put into it...

I seem to remember another bronze hilt resembling some antilope horn like this one but didn't found the reference yet. Origin was not known, too, if I recall correctly.

Does somebody recognize the script? I hope it may help to solve this puzzle!

Regards,
Kai

23rd May 2007, 07:53 PM	#1
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Indian sword I know, I'm mostly interested in African weapons. But I saw this one and couldn't let it go .........I'm just weak ! It's an Indian sword, of that I'm sure. Probably a 'tulwar' or 'talwar'. It has a wooden sheath covered with leather. The handle is made of braided iron wire with an engraved handprotection. The blade is very sharp and made of some kind of laminated steel. Total length is about 86 cm. There's something missing at the top of the handle. Could anyone tell me what should be there ? I'm also interested in its origin. And last question : is it possible to get the missing piece.

23rd May 2007, 07:55 PM	#2
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	more pics

23rd May 2007, 08:32 PM	#5
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Oupss ! So it's Indonesian ? In fact, the person I bought this one from had two other swords which I could identify as Indonesian : a mandau and a hunting sword with the inscription 'Tjikr' I found some info on this last knife on this forum : http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=tjikeroeh In fact, here's a picture of the lot :

23rd May 2007, 09:44 PM	#8
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	It is not Indian, and what the other members have written sounds right to me, congratulations. Funny really, that so 'relativly' little difference of the hilt, makes the sword quite another sword of origin. So watch out for details. I think you did well Andrew.

23rd May 2007, 10:00 PM	#9
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 731	OHHHH!! VERY BEAUTIFUL SWORD, IT´S POSSIBLE THAN THIS TYPE OF SWORD WILL BE MY NEXT OBJECTIVE. CONGRATULATION!! AH IS THIS SWORD TO SELL? REGARDS CARLOS

23rd May 2007, 08:18 PM	#3
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Freddy, I don't think that's Indian. It's a piso podang from Aceh, Sumatra. Here's a nice article by RhysMichael (John Crosby): http://home.comcast.net/~jtcrosby/Aceh.html Looks quite nice, too.

23rd May 2007, 08:22 PM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Andrew, you hit the nail. Congrats Freddy, with this beauty.

23rd May 2007, 08:34 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Sorry, Andrew and Henk, not Piso Podang; just Pedang Type 1 as per our own expert Albert's book I am intrigued by the pommel, though: it is, indeed, hollow like in Piso. I think it is an artefact of the broken handguard. Very nice!

23rd May 2007, 08:46 PM	#7
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I don't have Albert's book with me, Ariel, but JT's article indicates this is, more specifically, a peudeueng peusangan with a hulu meu apet. (At least I got the origin and half the name correct. ).

23rd May 2007, 11:18 PM	#10
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Congratulations Freddy for the Pedang 1!!! But is the handle of the mongelima sword made of ivory? Thanks

24th May 2007, 12:16 AM	#11
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	A nice sword, definitely Aceh and they come from time to time with a pattern welded blade. The one I have with a pattern welded blade came from Artzi. It is called a pedang type 1 and also peudeueng pasangan , sikin peusangan, sikin pasagan, pedang, poedeung. There are so many dialects in that region that it gets really confusing. I use peudeueng as I beleive that to be the Aceh term for it. The hilt is called a hulu meu apet and should have a spike similar but smaller than is found on a firangi. Congrats on a good find. utami is in that part of the world and has some connections with Aceh smiths. I do not know if they can make a replacement part for you but its sure worth asking. Phillip Tom may be another resource for it freddy if you get a chance I would appreciate some better pictures of the scabbard to peudeung if you ever get a chance flavio the handle of the mongelima sword looks to be a similar to some seen on burmese swords. Maybe a boars tooth ? but just a guess. Andrew thanks for the kind words but the article is a compilation of information shared on this forum with me. So the credit should go to all those here who were so willing to share. Last edited by RhysMichael; 24th May 2007 at 12:30 AM.

24th May 2007, 07:37 AM	#14
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	letter opener Kai, I guess you mean the knife with the curved blade. It has a mark, but it's nothing I could read. But I can say this : it's entirely made of bronze and quite heavy. The African sword was used by the following tribes : Boa, Hanga, Angba, Mba en Benge, all from Congo. It has an ivory handle, but unfortunately it was a later addition.....and a bad one. It consist of a hollow piece of ivory filled with plaster

24th May 2007, 04:17 PM	#15
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thank you Freddy. It'a a very shame! A beautiful Mongelima blade with this bad restoration

25th May 2007, 05:13 PM	#16
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Here is a pic of the knife with curved blade. It's entirely made of bronze. I think it's some kind of paperweight. Nicely made, though.

25th May 2007, 05:26 PM	#17
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	As requested : here are some pics of the sheath. It consists of two flat wooden pieces covered with leather. On the front the sheath shows a middle rib.