Keris Jawa?

Gustav · 29th December 2022, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Very nice old Javanese keris, but I don't like the bottom of the hilt: it's too long and tapered

That means you don't like pre-1850 hilts.

Marcokeris · 29th December 2022, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

That means you don't like pre-1850 hilts.

Yes I don't know pre 1850 hilts. Mine was just a personal aesthetic evaluation. The kris is very nice as is the mendak which seems to be made by gold.

Gustav · 29th December 2022, 08:46 PM

Bungkul is elongated, as is the Mendak, on the old style combinations. The flow of this example is perfect.

Gustav · 29th December 2022, 09:20 PM

This Mendak has one peculiar detail and is second of the kind I have seen. The first is on a Keris, which with quite high possibility could be made in the same workshop.

A. G. Maisey · 29th December 2022, 10:54 PM

Below are my comments upon what I believe I can see in these photos. These comments are not to be read as a tangguh type classification, but they do represent some of the things that would come under consideration if I were to handle this keris.

This blade has probably had the gonjo replaced, the curvature of the gonjo is unsuitable for Central Javanese dress, it suggests West Jawa or South Sumatera, more likely South Sumatera, Palembang. The form of the top of the gonjo is compatible with Pajajaran. The pawakan is decidedly South Sumatera. The Palembang gonjo form is usually closer to a Mataram form, but in reality, there is no standard form that can be applied to Palembang.

Overall craftsmanship of this blade appears to be fine.

The gold work on the gonjo has been created by a different hand to the hand that created the gold work on the wilah (body of blade). The motifs used in the gold work are motifs I have not seen in Central Javanese kinatah work.

The hilt & mendak are pretty much stock standard old Ngayogyakarta. I cannot give a wondo for the hilt, the mendak is parijoto in some places, bejen in other places, where I went to school it is parijoto, & of very fine work, it could well be gold as suggested.

It is an older blade, but even in the hand I would hesitate to put an approximate date on it, there are simply not sufficient known indicators to support an opinion.

It is certainly not something from The Land of Jawa, possibly it might come from the Island of Jawa, Sunda, but I think my best guess would be South Sumatera.

Gustav · 30th December 2022, 09:07 AM

Alan, a question - which is the curvature of Gonjo, that is unsuitable for Central Javanese dress? Because, if you mean the spine of Gonjo, the curvature here is rather moderate. There are early Pakualaman Keris where it is much more pronounced. In fact early Pakualaman perhaps could be one guess for this blade.

The kind of goldwork and its motifs are absolutely untypical for Palembang either.
Goldwork on Gonjo is only partly different from that on the blade - the part below Gandhik belongs to the ensemble on blade, the flat "paint" on sides and spine of Gonjo is an addition. So I don't see any hints of Gonjo being a replacement.

I have not seen any Keris with Kembang Kacang Bungkem outside Java until now.

Of course Mendhak is standard old Yogyakarta, but it has one peculiarity - instead of Meniran there is a flat rim. As I wrote, I am aware of one another Yogyakarta Mendhak with such feature until now, and it comes en ensemble with Keris possibly created in the same workshop. Moreover, the blade has the same kind of goldwork motifs and equally extravagant Ricikan.

Gustav · 30th December 2022, 10:44 AM

In fact the execution of the single Sogokan here is Javanese, not South Sumatran.
The execution of goldwork is also Javanese. Similar motifs can be found on Javanese Keris from th first half/middle of 19th cent.

29th December 2022, 08:46 PM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,208	Bungkul is elongated, as is the Mendak, on the old style combinations. The flow of this example is perfect.

29th December 2022, 09:20 PM	#4
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,208	This Mendak has one peculiar detail and is second of the kind I have seen. The first is on a Keris, which with quite high possibility could be made in the same workshop.

29th December 2022, 10:54 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,752	Below are my comments upon what I believe I can see in these photos. These comments are not to be read as a tangguh type classification, but they do represent some of the things that would come under consideration if I were to handle this keris. This blade has probably had the gonjo replaced, the curvature of the gonjo is unsuitable for Central Javanese dress, it suggests West Jawa or South Sumatera, more likely South Sumatera, Palembang. The form of the top of the gonjo is compatible with Pajajaran. The pawakan is decidedly South Sumatera. The Palembang gonjo form is usually closer to a Mataram form, but in reality, there is no standard form that can be applied to Palembang. Overall craftsmanship of this blade appears to be fine. The gold work on the gonjo has been created by a different hand to the hand that created the gold work on the wilah (body of blade). The motifs used in the gold work are motifs I have not seen in Central Javanese kinatah work. The hilt & mendak are pretty much stock standard old Ngayogyakarta. I cannot give a wondo for the hilt, the mendak is parijoto in some places, bejen in other places, where I went to school it is parijoto, & of very fine work, it could well be gold as suggested. It is an older blade, but even in the hand I would hesitate to put an approximate date on it, there are simply not sufficient known indicators to support an opinion. It is certainly not something from The Land of Jawa, possibly it might come from the Island of Jawa, Sunda, but I think my best guess would be South Sumatera.

30th December 2022, 09:07 AM	#6
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,208	Alan, a question - which is the curvature of Gonjo, that is unsuitable for Central Javanese dress? Because, if you mean the spine of Gonjo, the curvature here is rather moderate. There are early Pakualaman Keris where it is much more pronounced. In fact early Pakualaman perhaps could be one guess for this blade. The kind of goldwork and its motifs are absolutely untypical for Palembang either. Goldwork on Gonjo is only partly different from that on the blade - the part below Gandhik belongs to the ensemble on blade, the flat "paint" on sides and spine of Gonjo is an addition. So I don't see any hints of Gonjo being a replacement. I have not seen any Keris with Kembang Kacang Bungkem outside Java until now. Of course Mendhak is standard old Yogyakarta, but it has one peculiarity - instead of Meniran there is a flat rim. As I wrote, I am aware of one another Yogyakarta Mendhak with such feature until now, and it comes en ensemble with Keris possibly created in the same workshop. Moreover, the blade has the same kind of goldwork motifs and equally extravagant Ricikan.

30th December 2022, 10:44 AM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,208	In fact the execution of the single Sogokan here is Javanese, not South Sumatran. The execution of goldwork is also Javanese. Similar motifs can be found on Javanese Keris from th first half/middle of 19th cent.