Snipers

nechesh · 2nd December 2005, 02:00 PM

Well Lee closed the thread i intended to post this on and he might close this one too, but i wanted to have a say on this subject of sniping and Andrew did suggest to start a new thread on it so here goes:
This is really beginning to take on an air of absurdity. Robert, i would hate to see you leave the forum over such ridiculousness. From my own point, i have never sniped anyone from this forum on an eBay auction as far as i know. I have, however, been sniped by at least one very well respected member. SO WHAT! They are just swords guys, and there are more examples out there. There have always been far more people willing to kill each other with the bloody things then there are those like ourselves who are passionate about collecting them, so they will keep popping up.
Ebay offers a feature which allows a bidder to place his highest bid and keep it hidden from other bidders. It only applies as much as is necessary to win the auction. Whether someone is bidding all along or bids at the last minute, if you are honest with yourself about the highest price you are willing to pay for something, what does it really matter when someone outbids you? From the evidence it appears that Laban Tayo made his highest bid as the very first bid on the item and then sat back and watched people try to outbid him. Given this stategy i assume you made that first bid your highest bid. But i guess you didn't watch closely enough because apparently someone else outbid you a full FOUR hours before Robert made his bid. So how exactly did he "snipe" you?
Ebay bidding is a game of sorts. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. So when you lose the game, is it fair to say, in essence, "knowledge about these things is MY football, so i'm just going to take my ball and go home!". C'mon guys, get real. This idea of withholding knowledge is very disturbing to me. Like Lee and i am sure others, i was very disheartened to see the way the thread went on this subject. We are suppose to ALL be brothers here in the pursuit of knowledge.

Andrew · 2nd December 2005, 03:06 PM

Let's please put this one to rest. If anyone wants to continue discussing this particular situation, feel free to do so via PM or email.

Thread closed.

Lee · 2nd December 2005, 03:18 PM

Very well said Nechesh.

Sadly, the very design of ebay leaves sniping as the most effective way of winning an item and winning it at the best possible price. The best strategy is to come in as late as you can, indeed so late that you will not have time to rebid, pre-emptively with your top offer.

Just as the Moderators team has found it necessary, for legal concerns, to restrict all discussions of open auctions, I would also like to remind members that 'ringing' an auction is a crime in many jurisdictions. The term 'ring,' I gather, derives from a group of dealers who decided which among them would bid upon which items in poorly attended rural auctions insuring a low price for the seller, and later holding a second private auction in the pub. But the laws on auction 'rings' are often more broadly written to prohibit any sort of collusion or conspiracy on bidding.

I also have largely come to stay away from the auction marketplace and to buy from dealers, largely for the prospect of examining an item closely before purchase or being able to return it if it disappoints.

If I do venture into ebay, I will do so as a sniper. As per discussions years ago in the forums, if I recognize an acquaintence or fellow forum member as the leading bidder, I will limit my actions to either 1. Not bidding and not consulting with anyone about this decision or 2. Advising the acquaintence to expect me to snipe, giving them the option to raise their maximum.

Lee · 2nd December 2005, 04:30 PM

Having inadvertently posted in a closed thread, I hesitatingly re-open the thread, as it was not my intention to 'have the last word.'

If you choose to contine with this thread, please do so in general, non-personal philosophical terms.

I have been sniped and the first time it happened to me at the hands of someone I knew I was pretty upset and I stayed that way for a while. In the end, I have realized that sniping is just part of the whole nasty brute-force-of-money auction world, and a reality that I had to accept if I wanted to participate that growing part of the marketplace.

Andrew · 2nd December 2005, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

If you choose to contine with this thread, please do so in general, non-personal philosophical terms.

My finger is on the lock button, gentlemen...

VANDOO · 2nd December 2005, 09:31 PM

DON'T GET TRIGGER HAPPY ANDREW OFTEN VENTING ONES FRUSTRATIONS IS A GOOD THING

THE GOOD THING HERE IS THAT IT IS NOT INTERFERING WITH A TOPIC UNDER DISCUSSION. I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND THE MANIA TO COLLECT AND HATE TO LOSE SOMETHING WE WANTED BADLY IN THE LAST SECOND. THAT IS JUST THE WAY IT WORKS ON EBAY AND AT A ACTUAL AUCTION. THE COMPETICIAN HAS GOTTEN HOTTER AND THERE ARE NEW COLLECTORS WITH CASH IN HAND WANTING IN THE GAME AT ANY PRICE. THEY ARE DRIVEN LIKE WE ARE AND MAY GO ON A SPENDING BINGE WHEN THEY FIRST GET INTERESTED AND START LEARNING. I HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME BECAUSE WHAT I CONSIDER THE REASONABLE PRICE OF A ITEM IS WAY OUT OF DATE AND TO PAY MORE THAN I THINK IT IS WORTH MAKES ME FEEL LIKE A SUCKER AND THERE IS NO ENJOYMENT IN THAT. IF I RUN ACROSS SOMETHING I BID AND AM ON SOMEWHAT OF A BIDDING BENGE AT PRESENT BUT FORTUNATELY THE OTHER BIDDERS ARE SAVING ME FROM MYSELF. IF I WON EVERYTHING I BID ON I WOULD HAVE TO START HIDEING FROM THE BILL COLLECTORS AND TAX MAN SO THANKS GUYS

BUT OF COURSE I STILL DON'T LIKE LOSEING

I SURE WOULDN'T THROW AWAY A VALUABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION OR STOP SHAREING INFORMATION BECAUSE I WAS MAD THAT I LOST SOME ITEMS. THIS FORUM IS WORTH MORE THAN ANY MERE ITEM!

Aurangzeb · 2nd December 2005, 11:02 PM

I feel in my own opinion that for me at least sniping gives me a better chance to win( I really don't have a fortune

). I really am a little miser and have to get as far as possible on my minimal funding. Even when sniping I have been outsniped. I take a sort of 'All is fare in love and war' idea to Ebay. But as I have said this is only my humble opinion.

Mark...

VANDOO · 2nd December 2005, 04:56 PM

EBAY CAN BE VERY DEPRESSING IF YOU GET HAMMERED OVER AND OVER AND SEE PRICES PUSHED UP BEYOND YOUR ABILITY TO PAY. YOU KNOW YOU HAVE HAD IT WHEN DEALERS CAN ALWAYS OUTBID YOU AND THEN RESELL AT A LARGE PROFIT. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO GIVE UP COLLECTING SOMETHING YOU HAVE BEEN COLLECTING FOR MANY YEARS BUT I CAN'T COMPLAIN AS I HAVE MY SHARE IN MYCOLLECTION ITS JUST HARD TO STOP. IT IS STRANGE, BUT GOING TO A GUN SHOW AND FINDING THE ITEMS YOU WANT PRICED OUT OF YOUR RANGE ISN'T AS FRUSTRATEING AS WATCHING EVERYTHING CLIMB RAPIDLY OUT OF SIGHT ON EBAY. I ALSO OCCASIONALY DON'T BID ON SOMETHING BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN BEATEN UP TOO MUCH AND SEE IT GO FOR A VERY GOOD PRICE FOR A CHANGE WHICH JUST PUTS SALT IN THE WOUNDS. FORTUNATELY I COLLECT OTHER THINGS AND CAN CONCENTRATE ON THEM, I RECENTLY CONTACTED A SELLER ABOUT A AUCTION ON EBAY THAT HAD WENT WITHOUT A BID 3 LISTINGS AND MADE A OFFER. I WAS TOLD THAT I WAS NOT A COLLECTOR AS I SHOULD BID WHATEVER IT TOOK TO GET WHAT I WANTED ON EBAY, FORTUNATELY I AM NOT THAT FAR GONE WITH THE COLLECTOR MALADY.

EBAY IS WHAT IT IS AND ITS TWO MAIN TRUTHS ARE "LET THE BUYER BEWARE" AND "YOU MAKES YOUR BID AND YOU TAKES YOUR CHANCES"

I DON'T THINK IT IS NECESSARY TO CONTACT A FELLOW FORUM MEMBER YOU RECOGNISE WHEN BIDDING UNLESS YOU WANT TO DO SO OUT OF COURTESY. A DEALER IS NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF LETTING THE COLLECTOR OUT BID HIM WHEN HE CAN BID MORE AND TURN A PROFIT SO THERE IS NO REASON TO GET MAD IF ONE DOES "JUST HOPE THEY AND THE OTHER COLLECTORS DON'T SEE IT"

EBAY IS NOT A FRIENDLY PLACE IT IS MORE LIKE A STOCK EXCHANGE DOG EAT DOG, SO IT IS NOT FOR THE WEAK HEARTED. I BACK OFF A LOT AND DON'T ACTIVELY SEARCH MORO OR PHILIPPINE ANYMORE AS THERE HASN'T BEEN A GOOD SCORE IN A VERY LONG TIME FOR ME. WHEN I JUST CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT AND IT ISN'T FUN I JUST STOP GOING TO EBAY FOR A WHILE AND REGROUP AND THEN PERHAPS JUMP BACK INTO THE FRAY AGAIN LATER.
ONE BIG PROBLEM IN MY AREA IS THAT ALL THE FLEA MARKETS,ANTIQUE STORES, ESTATE SALES,GARAGE SALES ARE SCOURED AND EVERYTHING GOES TO EBAY AND VERY LITTLE SHOWS UP AT LOCAL GUN SHOWS EITHER, SO MY OLD WAY OF COLLECTING NO LONGER WORKS. "SUCH IS LIFE"

END OF RANT

MABAGANI · 2nd December 2005, 06:00 PM

There's the $9.99 bargain first come first serve strategy of tagging an item with a forum name with a minimal bid, hoping other members will pass and end up not having to paying too much, which evidently is risky when others don't bother to check who's bidding or when new collectors start sniping everything in sight with overbids.
If a group of collectors all get sniped by the same person, what's the proper reaction when the items get paraded in a forum? Does the snipee lay down or does snoopie get to bark foul when the football is crapped on? It hit the fan but to my surprise knowledge was not withheld. Like a game it was fun to watch.
Beware, I'll stalk and snipe like the rest with top dollar in hand...if an item is extraordinary or if I need a fix from the dreaded bug. lolz

Mark · 2nd December 2005, 06:11 PM

I actually recognize only a handful of e-bay bidders as forum members, because they use different handles in the two places. That makes it hard to recognize a fellow forumite as a bidder and give them room on an auction even if you want to.

wolviex · 2nd December 2005, 06:12 PM

The accusations and all of this discussions are just ridiculous. Let me remind you that Ebay is an AUCTION, and on the AUCTIONS usually you should bid a higher prices to win the game. Passing by because you see the familiar name is a) act of great mercy b) or pure naivety. We've got over 500 members here and personally I don't feel like checking the whole list before starting to bid, just in case not to "offend" someone, even well known here and with great knowledge. Sitting on the live auctions, and seeing familiar faces I wouldn't hide in the corner pretending I'm not existing! Dissapointing is an usual feeling when you loose a fight, but there is honourable way of loosing the games. And if you are so blind because of material and worldly things think about your humanum.

I hope Robert won't quit and won't judge this forum because of such stupid incident, and I hope his adversaries will show some class and stop arguing!

Best regards!

Tim Simmons · 2nd December 2005, 06:58 PM

Thats about it. Well said wolviex

. Tim

2nd December 2005, 02:00 PM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Snipers Well Lee closed the thread i intended to post this on and he might close this one too, but i wanted to have a say on this subject of sniping and Andrew did suggest to start a new thread on it so here goes: This is really beginning to take on an air of absurdity. Robert, i would hate to see you leave the forum over such ridiculousness. From my own point, i have never sniped anyone from this forum on an eBay auction as far as i know. I have, however, been sniped by at least one very well respected member. SO WHAT! They are just swords guys, and there are more examples out there. There have always been far more people willing to kill each other with the bloody things then there are those like ourselves who are passionate about collecting them, so they will keep popping up. Ebay offers a feature which allows a bidder to place his highest bid and keep it hidden from other bidders. It only applies as much as is necessary to win the auction. Whether someone is bidding all along or bids at the last minute, if you are honest with yourself about the highest price you are willing to pay for something, what does it really matter when someone outbids you? From the evidence it appears that Laban Tayo made his highest bid as the very first bid on the item and then sat back and watched people try to outbid him. Given this stategy i assume you made that first bid your highest bid. But i guess you didn't watch closely enough because apparently someone else outbid you a full FOUR hours before Robert made his bid. So how exactly did he "snipe" you? Ebay bidding is a game of sorts. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. So when you lose the game, is it fair to say, in essence, "knowledge about these things is MY football, so i'm just going to take my ball and go home!". C'mon guys, get real. This idea of withholding knowledge is very disturbing to me. Like Lee and i am sure others, i was very disheartened to see the way the thread went on this subject. We are suppose to ALL be brothers here in the pursuit of knowledge.

2nd December 2005, 04:56 PM	#8
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	EBAY CAN BE VERY DEPRESSING IF YOU GET HAMMERED OVER AND OVER AND SEE PRICES PUSHED UP BEYOND YOUR ABILITY TO PAY. YOU KNOW YOU HAVE HAD IT WHEN DEALERS CAN ALWAYS OUTBID YOU AND THEN RESELL AT A LARGE PROFIT. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO GIVE UP COLLECTING SOMETHING YOU HAVE BEEN COLLECTING FOR MANY YEARS BUT I CAN'T COMPLAIN AS I HAVE MY SHARE IN MYCOLLECTION ITS JUST HARD TO STOP. IT IS STRANGE, BUT GOING TO A GUN SHOW AND FINDING THE ITEMS YOU WANT PRICED OUT OF YOUR RANGE ISN'T AS FRUSTRATEING AS WATCHING EVERYTHING CLIMB RAPIDLY OUT OF SIGHT ON EBAY. I ALSO OCCASIONALY DON'T BID ON SOMETHING BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN BEATEN UP TOO MUCH AND SEE IT GO FOR A VERY GOOD PRICE FOR A CHANGE WHICH JUST PUTS SALT IN THE WOUNDS. FORTUNATELY I COLLECT OTHER THINGS AND CAN CONCENTRATE ON THEM, I RECENTLY CONTACTED A SELLER ABOUT A AUCTION ON EBAY THAT HAD WENT WITHOUT A BID 3 LISTINGS AND MADE A OFFER. I WAS TOLD THAT I WAS NOT A COLLECTOR AS I SHOULD BID WHATEVER IT TOOK TO GET WHAT I WANTED ON EBAY, FORTUNATELY I AM NOT THAT FAR GONE WITH THE COLLECTOR MALADY. EBAY IS WHAT IT IS AND ITS TWO MAIN TRUTHS ARE "LET THE BUYER BEWARE" AND "YOU MAKES YOUR BID AND YOU TAKES YOUR CHANCES" I DON'T THINK IT IS NECESSARY TO CONTACT A FELLOW FORUM MEMBER YOU RECOGNISE WHEN BIDDING UNLESS YOU WANT TO DO SO OUT OF COURTESY. A DEALER IS NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF LETTING THE COLLECTOR OUT BID HIM WHEN HE CAN BID MORE AND TURN A PROFIT SO THERE IS NO REASON TO GET MAD IF ONE DOES "JUST HOPE THEY AND THE OTHER COLLECTORS DON'T SEE IT" EBAY IS NOT A FRIENDLY PLACE IT IS MORE LIKE A STOCK EXCHANGE DOG EAT DOG, SO IT IS NOT FOR THE WEAK HEARTED. I BACK OFF A LOT AND DON'T ACTIVELY SEARCH MORO OR PHILIPPINE ANYMORE AS THERE HASN'T BEEN A GOOD SCORE IN A VERY LONG TIME FOR ME. WHEN I JUST CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT AND IT ISN'T FUN I JUST STOP GOING TO EBAY FOR A WHILE AND REGROUP AND THEN PERHAPS JUMP BACK INTO THE FRAY AGAIN LATER. ONE BIG PROBLEM IN MY AREA IS THAT ALL THE FLEA MARKETS,ANTIQUE STORES, ESTATE SALES,GARAGE SALES ARE SCOURED AND EVERYTHING GOES TO EBAY AND VERY LITTLE SHOWS UP AT LOCAL GUN SHOWS EITHER, SO MY OLD WAY OF COLLECTING NO LONGER WORKS. "SUCH IS LIFE" END OF RANT Last edited by VANDOO; 2nd December 2005 at 05:17 PM.

2nd December 2005, 06:00 PM	#9
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	There's the $9.99 bargain first come first serve strategy of tagging an item with a forum name with a minimal bid, hoping other members will pass and end up not having to paying too much, which evidently is risky when others don't bother to check who's bidding or when new collectors start sniping everything in sight with overbids. If a group of collectors all get sniped by the same person, what's the proper reaction when the items get paraded in a forum? Does the snipee lay down or does snoopie get to bark foul when the football is crapped on? It hit the fan but to my surprise knowledge was not withheld. Like a game it was fun to watch. Beware, I'll stalk and snipe like the rest with top dollar in hand...if an item is extraordinary or if I need a fix from the dreaded bug. lolz Last edited by MABAGANI; 2nd December 2005 at 06:55 PM.

2nd December 2005, 06:12 PM	#11
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Come to your senses, Gentlemen The accusations and all of this discussions are just ridiculous. Let me remind you that Ebay is an AUCTION, and on the AUCTIONS usually you should bid a higher prices to win the game. Passing by because you see the familiar name is a) act of great mercy b) or pure naivety. We've got over 500 members here and personally I don't feel like checking the whole list before starting to bid, just in case not to "offend" someone, even well known here and with great knowledge. Sitting on the live auctions, and seeing familiar faces I wouldn't hide in the corner pretending I'm not existing! Dissapointing is an usual feeling when you loose a fight, but there is honourable way of loosing the games. And if you are so blind because of material and worldly things think about your humanum. I hope Robert won't quit and won't judge this forum because of such stupid incident, and I hope his adversaries will show some class and stop arguing! Best regards!

2nd December 2005, 03:06 PM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Let's please put this one to rest. If anyone wants to continue discussing this particular situation, feel free to do so via PM or email. Thread closed.

2nd December 2005, 03:18 PM	#3
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 891	Very well said Nechesh. Sadly, the very design of ebay leaves sniping as the most effective way of winning an item and winning it at the best possible price. The best strategy is to come in as late as you can, indeed so late that you will not have time to rebid, pre-emptively with your top offer. Just as the Moderators team has found it necessary, for legal concerns, to restrict all discussions of open auctions, I would also like to remind members that 'ringing' an auction is a crime in many jurisdictions. The term 'ring,' I gather, derives from a group of dealers who decided which among them would bid upon which items in poorly attended rural auctions insuring a low price for the seller, and later holding a second private auction in the pub. But the laws on auction 'rings' are often more broadly written to prohibit any sort of collusion or conspiracy on bidding. I also have largely come to stay away from the auction marketplace and to buy from dealers, largely for the prospect of examining an item closely before purchase or being able to return it if it disappoints. If I do venture into ebay, I will do so as a sniper. As per discussions years ago in the forums, if I recognize an acquaintence or fellow forum member as the leading bidder, I will limit my actions to either 1. Not bidding and not consulting with anyone about this decision or 2. Advising the acquaintence to expect me to snipe, giving them the option to raise their maximum.

2nd December 2005, 04:30 PM	#4
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 891	Having inadvertently posted in a closed thread, I hesitatingly re-open the thread, as it was not my intention to 'have the last word.' If you choose to contine with this thread, please do so in general, non-personal philosophical terms. I have been sniped and the first time it happened to me at the hands of someone I knew I was pretty upset and I stayed that way for a while. In the end, I have realized that sniping is just part of the whole nasty brute-force-of-money auction world, and a reality that I had to accept if I wanted to participate that growing part of the marketplace.

2nd December 2005, 09:31 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	DON'T GET TRIGGER HAPPY ANDREW OFTEN VENTING ONES FRUSTRATIONS IS A GOOD THING THE GOOD THING HERE IS THAT IT IS NOT INTERFERING WITH A TOPIC UNDER DISCUSSION. I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND THE MANIA TO COLLECT AND HATE TO LOSE SOMETHING WE WANTED BADLY IN THE LAST SECOND. THAT IS JUST THE WAY IT WORKS ON EBAY AND AT A ACTUAL AUCTION. THE COMPETICIAN HAS GOTTEN HOTTER AND THERE ARE NEW COLLECTORS WITH CASH IN HAND WANTING IN THE GAME AT ANY PRICE. THEY ARE DRIVEN LIKE WE ARE AND MAY GO ON A SPENDING BINGE WHEN THEY FIRST GET INTERESTED AND START LEARNING. I HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME BECAUSE WHAT I CONSIDER THE REASONABLE PRICE OF A ITEM IS WAY OUT OF DATE AND TO PAY MORE THAN I THINK IT IS WORTH MAKES ME FEEL LIKE A SUCKER AND THERE IS NO ENJOYMENT IN THAT. IF I RUN ACROSS SOMETHING I BID AND AM ON SOMEWHAT OF A BIDDING BENGE AT PRESENT BUT FORTUNATELY THE OTHER BIDDERS ARE SAVING ME FROM MYSELF. IF I WON EVERYTHING I BID ON I WOULD HAVE TO START HIDEING FROM THE BILL COLLECTORS AND TAX MAN SO THANKS GUYS BUT OF COURSE I STILL DON'T LIKE LOSEING I SURE WOULDN'T THROW AWAY A VALUABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION OR STOP SHAREING INFORMATION BECAUSE I WAS MAD THAT I LOST SOME ITEMS. THIS FORUM IS WORTH MORE THAN ANY MERE ITEM!

2nd December 2005, 11:02 PM	#7
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	I feel in my own opinion that for me at least sniping gives me a better chance to win( I really don't have a fortune ). I really am a little miser and have to get as far as possible on my minimal funding. Even when sniping I have been outsniped. I take a sort of 'All is fare in love and war' idea to Ebay. But as I have said this is only my humble opinion. Mark...

2nd December 2005, 06:11 PM	#10
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I actually recognize only a handful of e-bay bidders as forum members, because they use different handles in the two places. That makes it hard to recognize a fellow forumite as a bidder and give them room on an auction even if you want to.

2nd December 2005, 06:58 PM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Thats about it. Well said wolviex . Tim