european sword - what is it ?

Rivkin · 9th March 2005, 06:14 PM

I would really appreciate any input on what is it ? The hilt is leather wrap, remains of wire over very scratched bronze.

Can it be a theater repro XIX century ?

Tim Simmons · 9th March 2005, 07:28 PM

Hello.I am sure this is composed of old sport or practice swords.The blade looks the most recent part which I feel is a cut down fencing sabre blade.The modern fencing sabre has a straight blade but you can find old curved ones.The guard is for a foil, a straight lightwieght poking weapon.The style of guard is 19th century.The grip looks as if it has been shortened and it should all unscrew at the pommel.I would think it has been made for the stage.Tim

Rivkin · 9th March 2005, 09:13 PM

Thank you ! Actually, upon forther examination I've realized that the leather wrap is placed (with the help of glue) on top of on older grip, which is a wire grip (I guess it's probably in bad condition).

The thing is that I've just bought this guy + scabbard for 140$. If I cut the wrap to see the older grip, I obviously can not return it . Does this sword worth 140$ ? I don't know...

ariel · 10th March 2005, 12:58 AM

Fencing foils have 2 kinds of a handguard: the newer variety, called lunette (Moon-like?)that is a solid hemispherical cup and the older version, called Fleurette (flower-like). The latter looks like an "8" and the openings were usually covered with very heavy and thick pigskin.
That's what it is.
The blade, however, is much thicker and heavier than the modern foil. I would guess that the combination of a fleurette and heavy, fullered blade would safely place this fencing sword into the 19th century. Pity it was shortened, but the bastards tend to brake a lot! I once was almost killed when my opponent lunged at me with a foil that just broke at the tip and was needle-sharp! Shish-kabob-ed, so to speak...

tom hyle · 10th March 2005, 01:30 AM

Ouch!
This could also have been shortened for use as a weapon, though within the modern milieu that often seems for some reason to elude consideration.

Rivkin · 10th March 2005, 01:35 AM

I don't think it was shortened - the hilt is 7 inches and the blade is 35 inches.

It's balanced at about 6 inches above the guard.

The problem is that it's "sharp" edge is about 4 mm _thick_ and 100% dull.

It does not really look to me as a foil or anything for this manner...

tom hyle · 10th March 2005, 08:31 AM

How stiff is the blade at the tip? The tip does not look rebated. It looks penetrative?
BTW, This usually slides by, but presumeably you mean the balance point is x inches below the guard; European swords are traditionally spoken of as the point being down (as they are worn or hung).

9th March 2005, 06:14 PM	#1
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	european sword - what is it ? I would really appreciate any input on what is it ? The hilt is leather wrap, remains of wire over very scratched bronze. Can it be a theater repro XIX century ? Attached Images

9th March 2005, 07:28 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Hello.I am sure this is composed of old sport or practice swords.The blade looks the most recent part which I feel is a cut down fencing sabre blade.The modern fencing sabre has a straight blade but you can find old curved ones.The guard is for a foil, a straight lightwieght poking weapon.The style of guard is 19th century.The grip looks as if it has been shortened and it should all unscrew at the pommel.I would think it has been made for the stage.Tim

9th March 2005, 09:13 PM	#3
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Thank you ! Actually, upon forther examination I've realized that the leather wrap is placed (with the help of glue) on top of on older grip, which is a wire grip (I guess it's probably in bad condition). The thing is that I've just bought this guy + scabbard for 140$. If I cut the wrap to see the older grip, I obviously can not return it . Does this sword worth 140$ ? I don't know...

10th March 2005, 12:58 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Fencing foils have 2 kinds of a handguard: the newer variety, called lunette (Moon-like?)that is a solid hemispherical cup and the older version, called Fleurette (flower-like). The latter looks like an "8" and the openings were usually covered with very heavy and thick pigskin. That's what it is. The blade, however, is much thicker and heavier than the modern foil. I would guess that the combination of a fleurette and heavy, fullered blade would safely place this fencing sword into the 19th century. Pity it was shortened, but the bastards tend to brake a lot! I once was almost killed when my opponent lunged at me with a foil that just broke at the tip and was needle-sharp! Shish-kabob-ed, so to speak...

10th March 2005, 01:30 AM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Ouch! This could also have been shortened for use as a weapon, though within the modern milieu that often seems for some reason to elude consideration.

10th March 2005, 01:35 AM	#6
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	I don't think it was shortened - the hilt is 7 inches and the blade is 35 inches. It's balanced at about 6 inches above the guard. The problem is that it's "sharp" edge is about 4 mm _thick_ and 100% dull. It does not really look to me as a foil or anything for this manner...

10th March 2005, 08:31 AM	#7
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	How stiff is the blade at the tip? The tip does not look rebated. It looks penetrative? BTW, This usually slides by, but presumeably you mean the balance point is x inches below the guard; European swords are traditionally spoken of as the point being down (as they are worn or hung).