Another Movie Weapon

Queequeg · 2nd October 2008, 08:58 PM

In "The Matrix Reloaded", during the battle at the Merovingian's chateau, one of the Merovingian's henchmen (the one with sunglasses and a spiral haircut) has a rather large, double edged sword with three points on the end. Does anyone know if this an actual sword type, or is it a complete fabrication, made solely for the movie?

I had posted this in another forum a while ago, in which the results were semiconclusive. In that forum, a gentleman who worked with the actual stuntmen in the film, told me that this 3 pointed design was made up by the particular stuntman who used it. However, I'm not convinced that the stuntman didn't have some already existing idea in mind, so, I thought I'd take a chance here because there's something vaguely Indian or South Asian about this sword to my untrained eye.

The reason I ask is because I'd like to make one of these someday (I make blades as a hobby) if it's an actual sword type. You can see this sword in action in this video clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ezr_4LtC_w

Here are some still pics from that scene. Thanks for looking:

David · 2nd October 2008, 09:32 PM

I must say that i find movie logic fascinating. The scene opens with Neo stopping a rain of bullets fired at him in mid-air and dropping them harmless to the ground. Yet with some form of remarkable cinema reasoning his assailants figure that he must then be vulnerable to an attack with edged weapons. I think it is at the open scene point that the wise response would be, "OK Neo, you win!"

fearn · 2nd October 2008, 09:38 PM

The three-pointed sword is an unusual form of chinese dao. At the moment, I don't remember the name, but Brendan Lai was selling wushu versions of this weapon back in the '90's. There are versions where the blade was fixed both on a dao hilt and on a longer pole (a la the quandao).

VANDOO · 2nd October 2008, 11:03 PM

A POSSIBLE ORIGIN FOR THE IDEA OF THIS SWORD WOULD BE THE KORA. THEY OCCUR IN NEPAL AND INDIA AND I HAVE SEEN SOME VARIATIONS WITH THREE POINTS AT THE WIDE TIP. THE MOVIE SWORD HAS A STRAIGHT BLADE AND THE POINTS ARE MUCH LARGER AND MORE PROMENENT. IT DOSEN'T LOOK LIKE MUCH WORK WENT INTO MAKEING IT PROBABLY A FLAT PIECE OF ALUMINUM ROUGHLY CUT AND SHAPED. I COULD NOT SEE THE GRIP BUT IT WAS PROBABLY VERY SIMPLE AND CRUDE ALSO. THE INFORMATION ON THE KORA CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 373 OF STONES GLOSSARY.

Queequeg · 3rd October 2008, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

A POSSIBLE ORIGIN FOR THE IDEA OF THIS SWORD WOULD BE THE KORA. THEY OCCUR IN NEPAL AND INDIA AND I HAVE SEEN SOME VARIATIONS WITH THREE POINTS AT THE WIDE TIP. THE MOVIE SWORD HAS A STRAIGHT BLADE AND THE POINTS ARE MUCH LARGER AND MORE PROMENENT. IT DOSEN'T LOOK LIKE MUCH WORK WENT INTO MAKEING IT PROBABLY A FLAT PIECE OF ALUMINUM ROUGHLY CUT AND SHAPED. I COULD NOT SEE THE GRIP BUT IT WAS PROBABLY VERY SIMPLE AND CRUDE ALSO. THE INFORMATION ON THE KORA CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 373 OF STONES GLOSSARY.

Actually, I have some closer shots. Seeing those, I get the impression that they did put a lot of work into it.

On the wall:

A shot of the crossguard and pommel. Looks like a hand-and-a-half handle there. The knobs on the crossguard seem to match the pommel, giving it a nice effect:

And, it looks like it has a pattern engraved on the length of the blade:

That looks like a lot of work for a movie prop which appears in only one scene. Pretty nice work, I think.

Queequeg · 3rd October 2008, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

The three-pointed sword is an unusual form of chinese dao. At the moment, I don't remember the name, but Brendan Lai was selling wushu versions of this weapon back in the '90's. There are versions where the blade was fixed both on a dao hilt and on a longer pole (a la the quandao).

'

Any pictures?

Cheers.

fearn · 3rd October 2008, 07:01 AM

I'm still looking for information on the dao version. Here's a link to the pole arm version. For purists, note that this is a wushu weapon, and I'm posting it just because it's the only image I've found so far.

I'd dearly love to find the name for this particular weapon. Unfortunately, the terms (three points, two edges, sword/saber/knife/dao) all lead elsewhere. I will point out that the Matrix version has a western-style handle, but this is the only place (so far) that I've seen that blade shape.

I'll keep looking.

F

Jim McDougall · 3rd October 2008, 07:03 AM

Although I have always been very serious about the study of arms and armour, I must admit that I have always been intriqued by weapons used in movies and illustrations in literature. I have often literally bit my lip while watching a movie, for example a pirate movie, with the swashbuckling hero brandishing a Civil War brass cuphilted cutlass and so on (so as not to annoy others watching with me

I remember seeing the movie "Sleepy Hollow" with Johnny Depp, and the huge bladed chopping sword used by the ghostly Hessian horseman played by Christopher Walken. I found that the Hessians in that region during the Revolutionary War were sans thier horses, and their huge cavalry swords were brass hilt semi basket type hilts with long straight blades, which were less than effective on foot. Naturally, the imagery of the mounted horseman with monstrous fictional 'scimitar' lent well to the license in the movie.

However, I always enjoy, in the case of the fantasy genre of entertainment, trying to discover the possible source or influence in the fearsome and impressive looking edged weapons used, as Queequeg has queried here.
As Vandoo has noted, the double concave tip of the Nepalese kora may have simply been exaggerated, which most of these weapons inherently are. But in many cases they may derive from true classical weapons. Sometimes polearm heads such as naginata and others may be mounted on hilts and used as sidearms, and in this perspective in Stone p.375, there is a 16th century polearm with trident type head with three blades that bring to mind the fluer de lis. These are termed 'korseke', and are broad bladed versions of European military forks with trident like tynes.

Obviously, the three bladed image seems very familiar thinking of many vaguely described weapons in narratives, and it seems that I've seen something like this somewhere! But how many times have we all thought that?

Interesting anyway!

All the best,
Jim

Uh...just saw Fearns post which looks like we crossed......and looks like he's got it....but decided to leave this anyway

2nd October 2008, 08:58 PM	#1
Queequeg Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Detroit (New Mayapan) Posts: 96	Another Movie Weapon In "The Matrix Reloaded", during the battle at the Merovingian's chateau, one of the Merovingian's henchmen (the one with sunglasses and a spiral haircut) has a rather large, double edged sword with three points on the end. Does anyone know if this an actual sword type, or is it a complete fabrication, made solely for the movie? I had posted this in another forum a while ago, in which the results were semiconclusive. In that forum, a gentleman who worked with the actual stuntmen in the film, told me that this 3 pointed design was made up by the particular stuntman who used it. However, I'm not convinced that the stuntman didn't have some already existing idea in mind, so, I thought I'd take a chance here because there's something vaguely Indian or South Asian about this sword to my untrained eye. The reason I ask is because I'd like to make one of these someday (I make blades as a hobby) if it's an actual sword type. You can see this sword in action in this video clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ezr_4LtC_w Here are some still pics from that scene. Thanks for looking:

2nd October 2008, 09:32 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,024	I must say that i find movie logic fascinating. The scene opens with Neo stopping a rain of bullets fired at him in mid-air and dropping them harmless to the ground. Yet with some form of remarkable cinema reasoning his assailants figure that he must then be vulnerable to an attack with edged weapons. I think it is at the open scene point that the wise response would be, "OK Neo, you win!"

2nd October 2008, 09:38 PM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	The three-pointed sword is an unusual form of chinese dao. At the moment, I don't remember the name, but Brendan Lai was selling wushu versions of this weapon back in the '90's. There are versions where the blade was fixed both on a dao hilt and on a longer pole (a la the quandao).

2nd October 2008, 11:03 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A POSSIBLE ORIGIN FOR THE IDEA OF THIS SWORD WOULD BE THE KORA. THEY OCCUR IN NEPAL AND INDIA AND I HAVE SEEN SOME VARIATIONS WITH THREE POINTS AT THE WIDE TIP. THE MOVIE SWORD HAS A STRAIGHT BLADE AND THE POINTS ARE MUCH LARGER AND MORE PROMENENT. IT DOSEN'T LOOK LIKE MUCH WORK WENT INTO MAKEING IT PROBABLY A FLAT PIECE OF ALUMINUM ROUGHLY CUT AND SHAPED. I COULD NOT SEE THE GRIP BUT IT WAS PROBABLY VERY SIMPLE AND CRUDE ALSO. THE INFORMATION ON THE KORA CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 373 OF STONES GLOSSARY.

3rd October 2008, 07:01 AM	#7
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I'm still looking for information on the dao version. Here's a link to the pole arm version. For purists, note that this is a wushu weapon, and I'm posting it just because it's the only image I've found so far. I'd dearly love to find the name for this particular weapon. Unfortunately, the terms (three points, two edges, sword/saber/knife/dao) all lead elsewhere. I will point out that the Matrix version has a western-style handle, but this is the only place (so far) that I've seen that blade shape. I'll keep looking. F

3rd October 2008, 07:03 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Although I have always been very serious about the study of arms and armour, I must admit that I have always been intriqued by weapons used in movies and illustrations in literature. I have often literally bit my lip while watching a movie, for example a pirate movie, with the swashbuckling hero brandishing a Civil War brass cuphilted cutlass and so on (so as not to annoy others watching with me I remember seeing the movie "Sleepy Hollow" with Johnny Depp, and the huge bladed chopping sword used by the ghostly Hessian horseman played by Christopher Walken. I found that the Hessians in that region during the Revolutionary War were sans thier horses, and their huge cavalry swords were brass hilt semi basket type hilts with long straight blades, which were less than effective on foot. Naturally, the imagery of the mounted horseman with monstrous fictional 'scimitar' lent well to the license in the movie. However, I always enjoy, in the case of the fantasy genre of entertainment, trying to discover the possible source or influence in the fearsome and impressive looking edged weapons used, as Queequeg has queried here. As Vandoo has noted, the double concave tip of the Nepalese kora may have simply been exaggerated, which most of these weapons inherently are. But in many cases they may derive from true classical weapons. Sometimes polearm heads such as naginata and others may be mounted on hilts and used as sidearms, and in this perspective in Stone p.375, there is a 16th century polearm with trident type head with three blades that bring to mind the fluer de lis. These are termed 'korseke', and are broad bladed versions of European military forks with trident like tynes. Obviously, the three bladed image seems very familiar thinking of many vaguely described weapons in narratives, and it seems that I've seen something like this somewhere! But how many times have we all thought that? Interesting anyway! All the best, Jim Uh...just saw Fearns post which looks like we crossed......and looks like he's got it....but decided to leave this anyway