A riddle just for fun and learning

[ariel]

Gentlemen,
Here are 2 short single-edged swords/sabers/ daggers ( you decide).

The upper one has a scabbard, the lower one is "naked".

Who can tell where they are coming from, their names, approximate ages, and what is the single peculiar feature that is common to them?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Ariel, Hmm... good question... could it be that the fullers on both weapons are in different places on each face...so as to decrease the weight? Are these Georgian?... Are they Kindjals as opposed to the similar looking Quaderrah of Iran?



Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Ariel, Hmm... good question... could it be that the fullers on both weapons are in different places on each face...so as to decrease the weight? Are these Georgian?... Are they Kindjals as opposed to the similar looking Quaderrah of Iran?



Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Hello Ibrahiim,

Kindjals/Qamas and Quaddaras are definitely very different weapons, as the Kindjals/Qamas are straight, double edged blades, frequently with asymmetric fullers while Qaddras are single edged, slightly curved sabers.

From this point of view, the longer blade definitely appears to be a Quaddara, while the shorter blade looks more of a poorly crafted hybrid blade, possibly of African origin.

Regards,

Marius

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Hello Ibrahiim,

Kindjals/Qamas and Quaddaras are definitely very different weapons, as the Kindjals/Qamas are straight, double edged blades, frequently with asymmetric fullers while Qaddras are single edged, slightly curved sabers.

From this point of view, the longer blade definitely appears to be a Quaddara, while the shorter blade looks more of a poorly crafted hybrid blade, possibly of African origin.

Regards,

Marius

Salaams mariusgmioc ..Easily mixed up... and it seems related perhaps... I note from Atkinson -swords

Quote."The Qama (“Khama”, “Kama”) short sword, the national weapon of Georgia. The blade is 11 1/4" in length, with 3 fullers. It is double edged and very sharp. The overall length is 17 1/2". Unlike the plainer version, called the Kindjal in Russian, the Qama is decorated, often with hilts and scabbards covered with embossed silver. This Qama(see website and picture below from that) is one such, with a beautiful brushed silver scabbard. The ornamentation includes Georgian traditional decorations done in silver wire designs and niello (a black metallic alloy of sulphur, copper, silver, and usually lead, used as an inlay on engraved metal). The fine filigree and ornate decorations remain in exceptional condition. The well preserved nature of this Qama and its decoration indicate it may have been used in the ceremonies, celebrations and other traditions of the proud people of the Caucasus Mountains of Georgia.


The Qama is the proud possession of a Georgian warrior, symbolizing heroism and dignity. It is thus an insult to Georgians that their hereditary enemies, the Cossacks, were “allowed” to carry the Georgian national sword (in Russian, called a Kindjal). Their grievance remains open to this day.

The Qama and Kindjal probably both evolved from the Roman short sword (gladius) and possibly the Persian quaddara which it resembles".Unquote.

See website http://atkinson-swords.com/collectio...a-georgia.html

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ian]

Thanks for posting a riddle Ariel. I like mysteries.

I'm not sure where these are from, but I would offer the suggestion that each blade looks as though it may be cut down from something longer. The fullers run all the way to the hilt, and in the case of the longer example, the fuller can be seen running under the hilt. (The cross-section of the hilt piece looks like it was made for another weapon also.) That suggests to me that the blade has been cut down and refashioned into a shorter sword/knife.

Ian.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams mariusgmioc ..Easily mixed up... and it seems related perhaps... I note from Atkinson -swords

Quote."The Qama (“Khama”, “Kama”) short sword, the national weapon of Georgia. The blade is 11 1/4" in length, with 3 fullers. It is double edged and very sharp. The overall length is 17 1/2". Unlike the plainer version, called the Kindjal in Russian, the Qama is decorated, often with hilts and scabbards covered with embossed silver. This Qama(see website and picture below from that) is one such, with a beautiful brushed silver scabbard. The ornamentation includes Georgian traditional decorations done in silver wire designs and niello (a black metallic alloy of sulphur, copper, silver, and usually lead, used as an inlay on engraved metal). The fine filigree and ornate decorations remain in exceptional condition. The well preserved nature of this Qama and its decoration indicate it may have been used in the ceremonies, celebrations and other traditions of the proud people of the Caucasus Mountains of Georgia.


The Qama is the proud possession of a Georgian warrior, symbolizing heroism and dignity. It is thus an insult to Georgians that their hereditary enemies, the Cossacks, were “allowed” to carry the Georgian national sword (in Russian, called a Kindjal). Their grievance remains open to this day.

The Qama and Kindjal probably both evolved from the Roman short sword (gladius) and possibly the Persian quaddara which it resembles".Unquote.

See website http://atkinson-swords.com/collectio...a-georgia.html

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Hello Ibrahiim and thank you for the citation!

Unfortunately, the author is wrong. The Qama and the Kindjal are nothing but two different names for precisely the very same weapon!

Qama is the name in Georgia/Iran/Turkey, while Kindjal is the name in Russia/Armenia/Daghestan.

As with regards to its decoration, the author is again plainly wrong as arguably Kubachi (Daghestan) Kindjals are the most lavishly decorated weapons of this type.

If you show the photo of the sword above to a knowledgeable Russian, he will immediately identify it as a Kindjal. Show it to a Persian and it will clearly be a Qama.

PS: I guess it is pretty much the same like with the Omani Khanjar and with the Yemeni Jambyia.

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Unfounately, the author is plainly wrong. The Qama and the Kindjal are nothing but two different names for precisely the very same weapon!

Perhaps in linguistical terms, but not in weapons types.
Similarly, many are calling Turkish shamshirs and sabers Kilij, disregarding the features of the blade, hilt, etc. just because Kilij means "sword" in Turkish language, or Saif because it is Arabic word for sword.
Qama is distinctively single edged, and Kindjal is distinctively double edged, not to mention differences in fittings, decorations and origin. Not the same weapon type by any mean.

[Kubur]

I love to guess.
But I assume, Ariel, that your answser is based on solid arguments and proofs.
If not, I guess that all opinions will be valid...
Maybe the blades are old qaddara or kinjal cut in two pieces? (right in the middle)
One hilt looks like these Sahelian daggers/swords (with copper bands).
The blond horn of the qaddara looks like these Tunisan daggers.
I really don't know!!!
Best,
Kubur