Robert Hales: Islamic Arms and Armour

digenis · 31st October 2013, 08:48 PM

Just received the book. Some of the weapons pictured are amazing. Certainly a great reference book for the advanced or wealthy collector. Your average person is not likely to run into this kind of quality weapons. I have only briefly looked through it so no in depth book review. One negative I have noticed so far: mostly generic descriptions of geographic origins of Ottoman weapons and broad brushed dating ("nineteenth century"). Not being picky but a more precise dating would have been nice. In Ottoman arms there is a substantial difference on edged weapons manufactured early during what I call the "golden age" (1770-1840) and those made later. Overall a good reference book although not cheap.

Iain · 2nd November 2013, 10:48 AM

Thanks for posting your impressions of the book. Besides Ottoman, what other geographical regions does the book cover?

ariel · 2nd November 2013, 02:42 PM

A VERY good portion of the items are Indo-Persian. Several presentation weapons with astonishing degree of richness. Big collection of very expensive Keris and their handles, an interesting description of a large group of carved Dha handles. Firearms and armour are not my area of interest, so I just omit them.

There is a group of Caucasian kindjals, but only a couple are "old" in Caucasian terms: first half of the 19th century. The rest are right on the "19/20" line, classical Daghestani artistic items. Several Chinese/Tibetan swords, a lot of Nimchas, a smattering of Arabs and Indonesians and some exotic stuff. The descriptions are brief and factual, also centered around the decorative aspects. Not much discussion of the origin, the dating is by and large a guess, the fighting aspects are glossed over.

The main emphasis is on richness: gold, gems, ivory, jade. And the level of decoration is mind-boggling: carving, kundun, niello, inlays... I think the smallest diamond was bigger than a walnut :-) Virtually all items are well outside my level of financial commitment.

Personally, I would like to see more blades, but Mr. Hales obviously was interested more in the decorative aspects of Oriental weapons. That's fine with me. In a way, this is an expanded and even more lavish analogue of the famous catalogue Splendor of the Oriental Weapons.

The book is very expensive, but its quality is unsurpassable. Not for nothing there is a separate "collector edition".

With all the points stated above, who needs it? And the answer is: the longer I have it, the more often I pull it from the shelf just to look at the beauty of old swords and daggers, to admire the craft, to sense the importance of weapons in different cultures whereby they served as almost religious artistic objects. They were the souls of men.

Do not buy this book if you expect to find a factual analysis of military machinery, evolution of fighting implements, easy guide for identification of different patterns or deep discussion of esoteric subjects.

This is a paean to what the weapon meant to the people who could afford to own the ideal of The Sword.

Jens Nordlunde · 2nd November 2013, 10:19 PM

Very well written Ariel

.
Did you know, that no 416 and 417 were exhibited at David's Collection (A museum in Copenhagen) in 1982?
There may be one more piece, but I am a bit unsertain abut that.
Jens

Iain · 3rd November 2013, 09:02 AM

Thanks Ariel, that's very helpful.

It's often not easy to find reviews on these sort of books that detail the aspects I'm interested in as a collector.

And given the asking price on this and some similar volumes it's quite the plunge to find it! Again, much appreciate your detailed write up.

Horsa · 3rd November 2013, 07:04 PM

Great thanks for alerting me. I will definitely order a copy.

I have two books like this. "Arts of the Muslim Knight" and also the Khalili Collection book. Any thoughts on how this one will compare?

kahnjar1 · 4th November 2013, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horsa

Great thanks for alerting me. I will definitely order a copy.

I have two books like this. "Arts of the Muslim Knight" and also the Khalili Collection book. Any thoughts on how this one will compare?

IMHO Robert Hales book compares favourably with Arts of the Muslim Knight. I have both books and would say that perhaps the Hales book has a better range of pics. My opinion only----others may feel differently.
Stu

Richard G · 4th November 2013, 01:59 PM

What is also astonishing is that all these weapons have been at one time in the possession of Robert Hales, bought and sold by him in basically an open market; although some have ended up in museums.
Regards
Richard

ALEX · 4th November 2013, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard G

What is also astonishing is that all these weapons have been at one time in the possession of Robert Hales, bought and sold by him in basically an open market; although some have ended up in museums.
Regards
Richard

I agree

This is what happens when you're one of the most prominent dealers in London for 30+ years. A few years ago I saw Bob's table at the arms fair, and he had the best quality items, including persian wootz shield and wootz gold-inlaid silver-clad yataghan. now I feel sorry I did not get them. it is unlikely I'll come across items like these anytime soon

ariel · 5th November 2013, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horsa

Great thanks for alerting me. I will definitely order a copy.

I have two books like this. "Arts of the Muslim Knight" and also the Khalili Collection book. Any thoughts on how this one will compare?

Don't have the Khalili's one.
But Bashir Muhammed's book is a different kettle of fish: it is a serious book about weapons as weapons, whereas the Hales' one is about weapons as objects of art. The former one has a multitude of simple, damaged and worn-out examples without any decorations. The latter one stresses the intact and heavily embellished beauty.
Different strokes for different folks.

thinreadline · 5th November 2013, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Don't have the Khalili's one.
But Bashir Muhammed's book is a different kettle of fish: it is a serious book about weapons as weapons, whereas the Hales' one is about weapons as objects of art. The former one has a multitude of simple, damaged and worn-out examples without any decorations. The latter one stresses the intact and heavily embellished beauty.
Different strokes for different folks.

I am not familiar with Bashir Muhammed's book , what sort of geographical area and time period does it cover please ?

ALEX · 5th November 2013, 01:27 PM

The title of this book is: "The Arts of the Muslim Knight". it covers Islamic arms from 8 to about 18 century. See the description and reviews on Amazon.

As Ariel mentioned, this is a serious book with great research, items and pictures.

thinreadline · 5th November 2013, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

The title of this book is: "The Arts of the Muslim Knight". it covers Islamic arms from 8 to about 18 century. See the description and reviews on Amazon.

As Ariel mentioned, this is a serious book with great research, items and pictures.

Thanks for that , I think I shall buy it

31st October 2013, 08:48 PM	#1
digenis Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 48	Robert Hales: Islamic Arms and Armour Just received the book. Some of the weapons pictured are amazing. Certainly a great reference book for the advanced or wealthy collector. Your average person is not likely to run into this kind of quality weapons. I have only briefly looked through it so no in depth book review. One negative I have noticed so far: mostly generic descriptions of geographic origins of Ottoman weapons and broad brushed dating ("nineteenth century"). Not being picky but a more precise dating would have been nice. In Ottoman arms there is a substantial difference on edged weapons manufactured early during what I call the "golden age" (1770-1840) and those made later. Overall a good reference book although not cheap.

2nd November 2013, 10:19 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Very well written Ariel. Did you know, that no 416 and 417 were exhibited at David's Collection (A museum in Copenhagen) in 1982? There may be one more piece, but I am a bit unsertain abut that. Jens

2nd November 2013, 10:48 AM	#2
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,680	Thanks for posting your impressions of the book. Besides Ottoman, what other geographical regions does the book cover?

2nd November 2013, 02:42 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	A VERY good portion of the items are Indo-Persian. Several presentation weapons with astonishing degree of richness. Big collection of very expensive Keris and their handles, an interesting description of a large group of carved Dha handles. Firearms and armour are not my area of interest, so I just omit them. There is a group of Caucasian kindjals, but only a couple are "old" in Caucasian terms: first half of the 19th century. The rest are right on the "19/20" line, classical Daghestani artistic items. Several Chinese/Tibetan swords, a lot of Nimchas, a smattering of Arabs and Indonesians and some exotic stuff. The descriptions are brief and factual, also centered around the decorative aspects. Not much discussion of the origin, the dating is by and large a guess, the fighting aspects are glossed over. The main emphasis is on richness: gold, gems, ivory, jade. And the level of decoration is mind-boggling: carving, kundun, niello, inlays... I think the smallest diamond was bigger than a walnut :-) Virtually all items are well outside my level of financial commitment. Personally, I would like to see more blades, but Mr. Hales obviously was interested more in the decorative aspects of Oriental weapons. That's fine with me. In a way, this is an expanded and even more lavish analogue of the famous catalogue Splendor of the Oriental Weapons. The book is very expensive, but its quality is unsurpassable. Not for nothing there is a separate "collector edition". With all the points stated above, who needs it? And the answer is: the longer I have it, the more often I pull it from the shelf just to look at the beauty of old swords and daggers, to admire the craft, to sense the importance of weapons in different cultures whereby they served as almost religious artistic objects. They were the souls of men. Do not buy this book if you expect to find a factual analysis of military machinery, evolution of fighting implements, easy guide for identification of different patterns or deep discussion of esoteric subjects. This is a paean to what the weapon meant to the people who could afford to own the ideal of The Sword.

3rd November 2013, 09:02 AM	#5
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,680	Thanks Ariel, that's very helpful. It's often not easy to find reviews on these sort of books that detail the aspects I'm interested in as a collector. And given the asking price on this and some similar volumes it's quite the plunge to find it! Again, much appreciate your detailed write up.

3rd November 2013, 07:04 PM	#6
Horsa Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 12	Great thanks for alerting me. I will definitely order a copy. I have two books like this. "Arts of the Muslim Knight" and also the Khalili Collection book. Any thoughts on how this one will compare?

4th November 2013, 01:59 PM	#8
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 402	What is also astonishing is that all these weapons have been at one time in the possession of Robert Hales, bought and sold by him in basically an open market; although some have ended up in museums. Regards Richard

5th November 2013, 01:27 PM	#12
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 935	The title of this book is: "The Arts of the Muslim Knight". it covers Islamic arms from 8 to about 18 century. See the description and reviews on Amazon. As Ariel mentioned, this is a serious book with great research, items and pictures.