uncommon belgian bread knife with arm support

TimW · 2nd February 2013, 04:46 PM

I recently acquired a rather intriguing knife. It is an old belgian bread knife of crude but skilled manufacture.

The knife has a thin convex blade and a full tang construction. The handle is probably ash. The funniest of all is the arm rest. When using, the cutting edge is oriented towards the user; the big farmer breads are usually held against the chest.

What is interesting is the way the knife was made: steel seems to be laminated (old steel with plenty of impurities); different pieces are forge welded together (just behind the handle, just in front of the u shape & attachment of the u shape to the knife tang).

Age? I guess somewhere between 1850 - 1900.

Enjoy!

tim

colin henshaw · 2nd February 2013, 05:08 PM

Very interesting - I like these primitive items - has great character...

fernando · 3rd February 2013, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Very interesting - I like these primitive items - has great character...

Yes, an exquisite specimen indeed

.

Jim McDougall · 3rd February 2013, 04:20 PM

These unusual old sword type implements are pretty interesting., winder what its for.

junker · 5th February 2013, 07:51 PM

Just a guess.
Maybe a knive for one who lost his hand, when it is fastened to the lower arm.
There were plenty of those items after WW1.
But I think the handle would have been removed if it one ot that kind.

Dirk

fernando · 5th February 2013, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junker

Just a guess.
Maybe a knive for one who lost his hand, when it is fastened to the lower arm...

Humm ... unlikely (see my profile). I don't see much praticality in that. Besides, prothesis and other straping devices are only word to put up on a permanent basis, not for ephemerous tasks.
On the other hand, that arm 'rest' is well placed as a stopper to back the effort you would have to make to cut something hard ... very dense bread, following tim's mention; otherwise something harder

.

M ELEY · 6th February 2013, 05:29 AM

Could this have been used like a tobacco-cutting knife? The extended bar would have allowed for more of a swing to cut corn stalks, sugar cane, tobacco leaves (which are surprisingly thick and a pain to cut, I'm told). Just a guess-

If you google tobacco knives, you'll see all the weird shapes they came in, some for specialty removal. Here's a site for various agricultural knives and their odd shapes-
www.okapisa.com/site/awdep.asp?depnum=50598

fernando · 6th February 2013, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Could this have been used like a tobacco-cutting knife? The extended bar would have allowed for more of a swing to cut corn stalks, sugar cane, tobacco leaves (which are surprisingly thick and a pain to cut, I'm told). Just a guess-

...

As long as the cutting direction, be it chopping or leaning against the material, is towards the user... this is an important clue !
By the way, which are the blade measurements ... and the other parts length ?
Ot doesn't look like a chopper ... rather a (slicing) cutter

TimW · 6th February 2013, 01:30 PM

It is indeed a bread knife. You have to imagine: a BIG firm farmer's bread, plenty of children to feed. The U support takes away the strain from your wrist when cutting a lot of bread.

It could be made for an impaired person, but I'm not sure.

Here is a similar knife: http://www.mot.be/w/1/index.php/IDDO...e?i=900553.jpg

fernando · 6th February 2013, 01:39 PM

Noted; absolutely

.
Prity nice piece

Wouldn't mind having it

Fernando K · 6th February 2013, 06:48 PM

¿Bread?

Fernando K

fernando · 6th February 2013, 07:04 PM

It seems as Fernando K doesn't agree with the bread knife version !!

Emanuel · 7th February 2013, 04:34 AM

Hello,

Nifty tool.

Fernando K, the knife would be held the reverse way, the metal support resting on the top of the arm, not the bottom, and with the edge of the blade is on the concave side.

Regards,
Emanuel

fernando · 7th February 2013, 01:21 PM

I would say Fernando K drawing is correct.

.

TimW · 8th February 2013, 07:53 AM

Fernando is right. I guess the handle has shrunk a bit and normally covered the entire tang.

Imagine somebody holding the big loaf of bread against the chest with the left arm (almost hugging the bread); holding the knife in the right hand, the support touching the outside part of the lower arm. Cutting slices in a pulling direction, cutting towards the body.

This piece is very intriguing: simple and rather roughly manufactured (no fancy details - just form and function) but very efficient. And important in daily life!

Regarding dimensions: the blade is approx 2 mm thick (thin - for good slicing), convex grind, but rather flat and 27 cm long. The handle is 11 cm (wooden part); 18 cm between the end of the handle and the U shape.

Congoblades · 8th February 2013, 10:19 AM

When I was very young (sixties) my grandmother had such a knife for cutting bread, not the large farmers bread but the normal size (the size of the blade was just like a normal bread knife, so to small for very large breads). If I am correct it was used on the field so you can hold and cut the bread in your hands, no need to put it down.

The handle is not shrunk, it just like you see in the picture.

2nd February 2013, 04:46 PM	#1
TimW Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 54	uncommon belgian bread knife with arm support I recently acquired a rather intriguing knife. It is an old belgian bread knife of crude but skilled manufacture. The knife has a thin convex blade and a full tang construction. The handle is probably ash. The funniest of all is the arm rest. When using, the cutting edge is oriented towards the user; the big farmer breads are usually held against the chest. What is interesting is the way the knife was made: steel seems to be laminated (old steel with plenty of impurities); different pieces are forge welded together (just behind the handle, just in front of the u shape & attachment of the u shape to the knife tang). Age? I guess somewhere between 1850 - 1900. Enjoy! tim Attached Images

6th February 2013, 06:48 PM	#11
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 663	¿Bread? Fernando K Attached Images

7th February 2013, 01:21 PM	#14
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	I would say Fernando K drawing is correct. . Attached Images

2nd February 2013, 05:08 PM	#2
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Very interesting - I like these primitive items - has great character...

3rd February 2013, 04:20 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,742	These unusual old sword type implements are pretty interesting., winder what its for.

5th February 2013, 07:51 PM	#5
junker Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 140	Just a guess. Maybe a knive for one who lost his hand, when it is fastened to the lower arm. There were plenty of those items after WW1. But I think the handle would have been removed if it one ot that kind. Dirk

6th February 2013, 05:29 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	Could this have been used like a tobacco-cutting knife? The extended bar would have allowed for more of a swing to cut corn stalks, sugar cane, tobacco leaves (which are surprisingly thick and a pain to cut, I'm told). Just a guess- If you google tobacco knives, you'll see all the weird shapes they came in, some for specialty removal. Here's a site for various agricultural knives and their odd shapes- www.okapisa.com/site/awdep.asp?depnum=50598

6th February 2013, 01:30 PM	#9
TimW Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 54	It is indeed a bread knife. You have to imagine: a BIG firm farmer's bread, plenty of children to feed. The U support takes away the strain from your wrist when cutting a lot of bread. It could be made for an impaired person, but I'm not sure. Here is a similar knife: http://www.mot.be/w/1/index.php/IDDO...e?i=900553.jpg

6th February 2013, 01:39 PM	#10
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Noted; absolutely . Prity nice piece Wouldn't mind having it

6th February 2013, 07:04 PM	#12
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	It seems as Fernando K doesn't agree with the bread knife version !!

7th February 2013, 04:34 AM	#13
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello, Nifty tool. Fernando K, the knife would be held the reverse way, the metal support resting on the top of the arm, not the bottom, and with the edge of the blade is on the concave side. Regards, Emanuel

8th February 2013, 07:53 AM	#15
TimW Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 54	Fernando is right. I guess the handle has shrunk a bit and normally covered the entire tang. Imagine somebody holding the big loaf of bread against the chest with the left arm (almost hugging the bread); holding the knife in the right hand, the support touching the outside part of the lower arm. Cutting slices in a pulling direction, cutting towards the body. This piece is very intriguing: simple and rather roughly manufactured (no fancy details - just form and function) but very efficient. And important in daily life! Regarding dimensions: the blade is approx 2 mm thick (thin - for good slicing), convex grind, but rather flat and 27 cm long. The handle is 11 cm (wooden part); 18 cm between the end of the handle and the U shape.

8th February 2013, 10:19 AM	#16
Congoblades Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 171	When I was very young (sixties) my grandmother had such a knife for cutting bread, not the large farmers bread but the normal size (the size of the blade was just like a normal bread knife, so to small for very large breads). If I am correct it was used on the field so you can hold and cut the bread in your hands, no need to put it down. The handle is not shrunk, it just like you see in the picture.