Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 29th October 2022, 06:24 PM   #1
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,785
Default

This is a very nice example of these Omani sa'if, which have for many years been termed 'kattara' in the long standing literature. This is however incorrect and the term sa'if, while general, is how they are termed.

This blade does seem to be European with the 'running wolf' and character of the blade overall seeming to correspond with many German types.
While the Mutrah situation is well known as a location where examples were put together intended for souks, there is another factor to be aware of.

These type open hilt broadswords were also a status oriented accoutrerment which was worn by Omani men, especially merchants and official figures, much in the way the khanjhar daggers are worn. There have been considerable stockpiles of old European blades held in Bedouin arsenals which have been filtered into circulation over time from many years of trade.
Mutrah and other locations often simply fashioned these swords using these old blades, which were deemed of status on their own.

While this may be considered a 'fighting blade', in this particular style distinct to Oman with open cylindrical hilt, was never used in combat (Demmin, 1877; Burton, 1884). It is a hilt type used in traditional Omani/Zanzibari ceremonial functions and only in that staged combat.

The rounded tip on these is a feature used on many German broadsword blades of these types, and is primarily intended for slashing cuts. This is seen on the takouba blades of the Sahara which often had these type German blades.

There has indeed been a great deal of consternation over many years on these here, but I feel I learned a great deal on them through my colleague Peter Hudson, who in fact was in Oman for many years.

My 'not so nice' example acquired over 30 years ago before these became well known in the collecting community. In those days I thought they were fighting swords as well. This one more in the 'ceremonial' grouping.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Jim McDougall; 29th October 2022 at 06:36 PM.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2022, 07:11 PM   #2
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,152
Default

Jim, I'd guess yours once had a better looking leather cover on the grip and scabbard...
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2022, 07:26 PM   #3
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew View Post
Jim, I'd guess yours once had a better looking leather cover on the grip and scabbard...
Thanks Wayne , It was better, but still a pretty pedestrian example. I was excited at the time because then virtually nobody had these, and I found it in an auction in London. As always, I was just going for an example 'of the type'.
There was little knowledge on these, and the only useful reference was Robert Elgood's "Arms & Armour of Arabia". In that he noted the dearth of local knowledge of these and all other I had ever seen were the Demmin and Burton references .

I'm glad to see Jerseyman's example and to see these come up again.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2022, 11:52 AM   #4
A.alnakkas
Member
 
A.alnakkas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 1,339
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall View Post
While this may be considered a 'fighting blade', in this particular style distinct to Oman with open cylindrical hilt, was never used in combat (Demmin, 1877; Burton, 1884). It is a hilt type used in traditional Omani/Zanzibari ceremonial functions and only in that staged combat.
Quite an informative post as always, Jim. Though I beg to differ in this particular. There are plenty of heirlooms still surviving amongst a number of Omani families that due trace back to actual use.

Omani dances, like the Ardha or the Syrian Aradah all use actual weaponry, from rifles to swords to dagger. I may recall Burton's quote but do appreciate if you copy it, but think he noted an observation of the dance, rather than an actual studied observation on the functionality of the sword.

On a separate comment; to this day, Omanis prefer older blades even for constructing new swords. Even though there is a surplus of modern made blades that are perfect for dance.
A.alnakkas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2022, 04:42 PM   #5
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.alnakkas View Post
Quite an informative post as always, Jim. Though I beg to differ in this particular. There are plenty of heirlooms still surviving amongst a number of Omani families that due trace back to actual use.

Omani dances, like the Ardha or the Syrian Aradah all use actual weaponry, from rifles to swords to dagger. I may recall Burton's quote but do appreciate if you copy it, but think he noted an observation of the dance, rather than an actual studied observation on the functionality of the sword.

On a separate comment; to this day, Omanis prefer older blades even for constructing new swords. Even though there is a surplus of modern made blades that are perfect for dance.
Thank you Lofty, it is always good to hear from you, and it has been some time since our discussions on these. I am sure that there are heirlooms among the Omani families that do trace back to times when the blades were in use. The form of Omani sword typically of those earlier times were with the crossguard, but having some similarities to many of the characteristics of this cylindrical hilt.
These were more in the interior regions as I recall from discussions, where traditional details were more strictly observed. Naturally these swords with crossguards were used just as you note.

What I was trying to describe referred to this form of open hilt, as pictured in the OP, and I added my example. Burton (1884, p.166) notes "Demmin (p.396) finds it 'difficult to understand how this singular weapon could be wielded;. It serves mostly for show , and when wanted, is used like a quarterstaff with both hands"

Burton, a master swordsman, had noted 'sword dancing' in the interior of Africa, and had been in Zanzibar so certainly saw the Omani sword dance there, and was disdainful of this type of 'swordsmanship'.
However, it has always been clear that the Arab overall is inherently skilled in the use of the sword.
It was simply this particular hilt form and its dress which was primarily for 'show', as noted, and in these ceremonial performances.

It was worn by Arab (Omani) gentlemen (as Burton notes) meaning as a status symbol by important figures such as merchants and officials, and appears to have had a notable 'swagger' as such an accoutrement.

Burton (op. cit. p166) notes, "...their cousins, the Badawin (sic) living about Maskat, have conserved with a religious respect, many ancient weapons, won or bought in older days, and possibly dating from crusading times".

While Burton, though a master of the sword, did not carry out empirical analysis of the type of sword in question, it seemed apparent to him (as well as the other writer, Auguste Demmin (1877), that these were for show and not actual combat. As far as I have known, the only observed references to these swords have been ceremonially (in dancing) or worn as a fashionable accoutrement along with the khajhar.

These observations were substantiated through many years in Oman in field research as were noted in previous discussions years ago here as you recall.
These were amazing discussions in which I gained virtually all the knowledge I maintain on these weapons to date, and I am grateful to all you have contributed to that.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2022, 05:48 PM   #6
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,785
Default

Here are images of the 'battle swords' which indeed have combat use in Oman, and held traditionally in place for more centuries than can be accurately described, but certainly into early use by the Abbasids, In the Ibathi Faith in the interior of Oman, was the center of the presence of this type of sword which is of course directly associated with the long cylindrical hilt sword discussed here.
From my understanding, the interior of Oman was far more religiously fundamental than the Omani littoral and Muscat, where trade activity and outside influence deeply influenced styles etc.

As Oman has been effectively closed off to most of the outside world until recent times, aside obviously from trade in Muscat, and its Sultanate in Zanzibar, there was very little known of its history and these weapons. As have often been noted, even the Omani's have little notable knowledge of their history at large, nor that of these weapons. as there does not seem to be formal study of these subjects there. In recent times, this has been advancing and our studies here have I think added to the corpus of knowledge on these arms.
Prior to this, the references to Arabian arms in English has been limited to "the Arms ans Armour of Arabia" by Robert Elgood (1994) which provided the benchmark for these studies, and indeed noted the dearth of information on the Omani examples.
Attached Images
   
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2022, 05:50 PM   #7
TVV
Member
 
TVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,601
Default

Jim, as you probably know, I also find the theory, based on Peter's "trust me bro" sources, that the saifs with conical hilts were only for show and dance, unconvincing. That is not to say they were not used for traditional dance. I am sure they were, but I also believe that they were an actual weapon, in a similar way takoubas and kakskaras were both weapon and a formal part of a man's dress. Here is some of my reasoning:
1) Almost all of these blades are imports and are heavily marked, whether in Europe or in imitation of European marks in order to suggest a certain standard of quality. If these were never intended for combat use, cheaper local blades/blade like pieces of steel would have sufficed. Why even put fullering on blades if they are never going to be pulled out of a scabbard?
2) These swords are present in drawings of local warriors, who also wear bucklers and matchlocks. We also see them in pictures of bodyguards. It seems odd that the only non-functional piece of equipment on a warrior would the side arm, or that bodyguards would not be armed.
3) The kattara, the curved version, has the same kind of hilt. Curved swords being non-traditional, why would the locals waste valuable imported sabres on hilts that would not be functional? Are curved swords even used in traditional dance?
4) The lanyards going through the holes in the pommels are intended to prevent the sword from slipping out of the hand. Such use cannot be during the dance, when the swords are thrown in the air, so the lanyard would be completely redundant unless these swords were also intended to serve as weapons.
5) A German postcard with trophies from the Arab Uprising in Tanganyika shows a Zanzibari nimcha, a southern Yemeni silver hilted saif and one of these saifs with cylindrical hilts, along with a whole bunch of daggers. So we know at least some were used in battle.

By second half of the 19th century, Zanzibar authority was fragmenting and whatever forces the Sultan had in East Africa were completely ineffective. However, slavers like Tippu Tip (posing with a kattara for photos) were engaged in skirmishes and even some pitched battles in the heart of the continent, and apart from their firearms they most certainly used edged weapons as well. If they did not use conical hilted saifs, what did they use then? Ancient saif Yarubis from the 18th century and other, even earlier relics?

When I look at these saifs, I see both a weapon and a vital accessory to any man's dress, sometimes used in traditional dance. Parallels can be made with the takouba. Burton questioned how effective they would be, from his Western point of view, just like some other Western travelers questioned the effectiveness of the highly embellished flintlock pistoles men in the Balkans wore in their belts. Sure, a Martini Henry is better than a matchlock, but if we are not dismissing the matchlock as an actual weapon before being replaced by more modern firearms, then we should not dismiss the conical hilted saif just because it was obsolete in the context of modern 19th century warfare.
TVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2022, 06:43 PM   #8
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,785
Default

Teo,thank you, these are well thought out and well presented arguments, and I must say, most valid in considering these ideas of weapon vs. non weapon.
It is mindful of the 'flyssa' whose presence with the Kabyles was always regarded as a significant 'weapon' which of course must have been used.

Yet, at least in my example, it is terribly balanced, and the disproportional brass hilt without guard (of course) defies any logical assessment of actual use.
As in many of these kinds of cases, there are no accounts or evidence of their use in combat, despite posed illustrations of Kabyle warriors wearing them.

As I have noted, there are no records (as far as I know, or Peter in his nearly three decades there) of any Omani use of these open hilt broadswords used in combat. He often spoke of the laughter of Omani military figures who were colleagues of his when he suggested the potential of these in battle.
However, the same hilt on the curved saber does beg the question of why? if that type hilt precluded actual use.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2022, 09:20 PM   #9
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

I just cannot imagine that any ethnic warrior would waste his resources on a separate, purely “dancing”, sword. Military dances were encountered all over Caucasus, among Zaporozhian and other Cossacks, Zeybeks et cet. All of them used their fighting weapons, and not some flimsy implements specifically manufactured for communal dances that occured only limited times per year. Fighting swords were pride and joy of any warrior and were not damaged as a result of a dance. I doubt very much that Tippu Tib would arrange special photosession to brag about his choreographic implement.

I also cannot agree that the absence of a crossguard disqualifies any sword as a battle implement: see not only flissas, but a multitude of Indonesian swords, Ottoman yataghans, Caucasian shashkas or Afghani and Central Asian pseudo-shashkas. BTW, curved saber-like kattaras are a newer variation, when Daghestani masters started exporting shashka blades to South Aravia: after suppression of Shamil’s rebellion by the Russian army the market shrunk precipitously and shashkas became a highly decorated expensive souvenirs fot Russian officers and just tourists. They also exported kindjal blades to India for expensive hunting knives. One had to feed the family:-(

Things must have changed when swords lost their fighting function and were replaced by cheap imitations. That is what we see now in Caucasian and Ukrainian/Cossack choreographic shows.

Last edited by ariel; 1st November 2022 at 10:00 PM. Reason: Typos
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2022, 12:26 AM   #10
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,785
Default

Ariel, great to have you come into the discussion, and your points are, as always, well observed. I will admit I was a bit reticent to bring up the debates of years back on this, but it is a good topic if we can remain objective, and we can better analyze the actual character and use of these Omani sa'if.

Your analogies are well placed, and your point is well taken, the lack of cross guard indeed does not disqualify a sword in use as a weapon. When I used the flyssa as an example, it was primarily that these (at least examples I have handled) are terribly ill balanced and awkward. Perhaps this is what Burton and Demmin were observing on the long Omani/Zanzibari broadswords noted with the open cylindrical hilt.

it is important to note differences in circumstances however with the practice of 'dancing' with swords and warriors using their own swords in these ceremonies. In the cases you have described with Caucasians, Zeybeks and others, these seem to have evolved perhaps in the sense of the pre game 'inspiration' of football and getting 'ginned up' before battle. Naturally they would use their actual weapons. I do realize however that in the Caucusus (Georgia in particular) I know amazing performances with authentic weapons are done, and this is often the case in other ethnic ceremonies. In India demonstrations of martial skills often use authentic weaponry.

It is important to realize that while these other warrior 'dances' were indeed performed using their own weapons, in the Omani situation the Razha sword dance was part of much larger celebration. In this there was a great deal of pageantry involved, and this involved the notable flexing of bright, gleaming blades causing a notable audible sound and sensation with flashing blades.

While obviously blades are typically regarded as flexible in high quality, these blades were extraordinarily so, and indeed produced locally if I have understood correctly to achieve the theatrical dynamics desired. These events were dramatically impressive as observed by numbers of writers who were able to see them.

The confusion has come from the examples made in the same hilt fashion but using genuine old European blades as a rule for gentlemen in high status, and fashionably worn along with their khanjhars. This is why many examples are with highly decorated scabbards, often with elaborate embellishment.

While basically 'cut from the same cloth' as a form, many were worn by officials and well to do merchants and with sound European blades, while there were various examples used in the ceremonial events, which had nothing to do with those worn publicly. As we know, there are many cases where ceremonial arms and armor are of more theatrical nature, intended for such circumstances...most notably the array of Qajar weaponry.

While the combat and warfare situations of the warriors in the analogies presented are of course well known, in the research from the period of these earlier discussions, I have been unable to locate any campaigns or battles in which these Omani sa'if might have been used.

We know that they were commonly seen in Zanzibar, and apparently worn into the African interior, as witnessed by Burton in 1850s and as described in his "Lake Regions of Central Africa" (Sir F. Burton, p.479)......"swords in East Africa are carried only by strangers, the Wasawahila and the slave factors preferred the 'kittareh' , a curved saber made in Oman and the Hadhramaut or in its stead an old German cavalry blade. The Arabs carry as a DISTINCTION the farangi, a straight, thin, double edged, guardless and two handed sword,about 4 ft. long and sharp as a carving knife".

It does not seem in going through these accounts by Burton, that any warfare occurred in these apparently slave acquisition expeditions, and as noted, Arab 'gentlemen' wore these in Zanzibar, and must have on these ventures as well. In the accounts, the curved sabers preferred by the slave factors and Swahili do not have descriptions of their hilts, but examples we have seen of course suggest they too had the open guardless hilt.

So if these Omani sa'if broadswords were 'warrior' weapons, though being paraded around by Arab 'gentlemen' in a status oriented context, what warfare were they involved in?
The only times these have been observed have been in diplomatic (Frasier, 1821) or expeditionary contexts, not from historic conflicts with Omani 'warriors' participating.

Regarding the flyssa, as an aside. The only 'evidence' ever known of them used as a weapon is in a painting you saw years ago, but there are no accounts of them related in any action that I am aware of. I did find an example in the French Foreign Legion museum in France which was obtained from French campaigns in Kabylia in 1857. However there is nothing saying this was taken 'in battle', and these were well known as items proudly held in households as traditional icons,so probably 'liberated' after taking a location.

On this topic of use of the Omani sa'if (of this cylindrical hilt type) I am, and always have been, purely devils advocate. I simply appreciate viewing and discussing this from all angles, and honestly the observations presented thus far by Teodor and you are compelling.

Last edited by Jim McDougall; 2nd November 2022 at 12:43 AM.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.