Suggestions for care and respect of Javanese and Balinese Keris.

nechesh · 12th July 2006, 01:44 AM

I agree with Rick. While the blade is certainly the most important part of any keris it would also be disrespectful to keep a nice keris in battered or damaged dress.
I tend to agree with you Bill about the showing of keris, but i also umderstand that every collector will have their own personal relationship with their collection and i certainly can't slight anyone if they choose to display their keris to the entire world. I am actually quite grateful to those who are willing to do this since it gives me an opportunity to see a lot of nice keris and helps greatly in my studies. Personally i would rather show my keris only to those i choose to, one person at a time.

I'm with you on most of the rest, but i am not so sure why i should smoke my keris on Thursday nights here in the U.S. or elsewhere. I could be wrong, but i had always associated that with Islamic tradition. Since i am not Molsem nor do i use my keris in an Islamic manner i don't personally see the need for that particular timing. The keris has been important in both Hindu (perhaps even pre-Hindu) and Islamic Indonesian culture and i think the proper day for smoking the blade is probaly different depending on your cultural beliefs. The keris seems willing to adapt itself to different religious belief systems. What i think IS important is that you DO smoke and oil the blades, at least for me.

I have never heard this taboo on smelling the blade. I wonder if this applies to the owner, who is, afterall, the one who is feeding the keris, or just to others who might be shown the blade. If i showed someone else one of my keris and they sniffed the blade i think i might see that as rude. The same applies to striking the blade with your finger to hear it's resonance.

Bill M · 12th July 2006, 03:00 AM

David,

I think that you are right about the timing of smoking a keris. I was told Thursday night, because that would most likely be as close to the right night in Java. But I may have that wrong.

I would wonder if the spirit of the keris is Islamic oriented. Best I can tell the Indonesian version of Islam is a thin veneer over an animistic culture with its roots in the Neolithic.

So, perhaps, the keris (the Muslims have been here at least 400 years or so), could be Islamic oriented, over an animistic belief or it could be OR -- as I suspect -- a more pure spirit.

I also know that most of my keris have not been regularly smoked. I have heard that not feeding the spirit could caues his departure. So I would guess that most of my keris are empty houses. Beautiful empty houses, but the spirit is gone.

But the house is there. All it needs is a little turnkey. Some cleaning and polishing. The advertise for a new tenant. Then take care of him and he takes care of you!

Perhaps this is a crude attempt to explain a more beautiful and certainly more complex process, but a simple concept underlies this complexity.

In my 40 years of managing property, it has worked for me.

So how to attract a spirit back? Perhaps instead of Thursday night, we could work a little bit Western and find the right astrological time for our Moonchild ritual and bring a spirit into his new home. . . .

Mudi · 12th July 2006, 04:12 AM

In Indonesia there are many keris exhibition. What is important is that the keris not point to the ground when out of sarong.

It is true that Islam in Indonesia is not same as Arab or Middle East. The keris origin in Indonesia is from Majapahit empire, which was Hindu and Buddhist mix. Many of the Majapahit culture stay with Indonesia as Islam came as gamelan, wayang kulit, batik, dance. The Javanese culture prior to Islam was not animist. The Majapahit was very high culture and with great art. Borobudur temple is the largest Buddhist temple in the world and dates to 800AD.

If smoking keris means giving it incense, be careful as incense is the real food for the keris and only powerful keris with soul should be given incense. Indonesian collectors do not give incense to keris in collection. Only personal keris as worn on ceremony are given incense.

nechesh · 12th July 2006, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudi

In Indonesia there are many keris exhibition. What is important is that the keris not point to the ground when out of sarong.

It is true that Islam in Indonesia is not same as Arab or Middle East. The keris origin in Indonesia is from Majapahit empire, which was Hindu and Buddhist mix. Many of the Majapahit culture stay with Indonesia as Islam came as gamelan, wayang kulit, batik, dance. The Javanese culture prior to Islam was not animist. The Majapahit was very high culture and with great art. Borobudur temple is the largest Buddhist temple in the world and dates to 800AD.

But what was Javanese culture BEFORE the arrival of Hindu/Buddhist infuence?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudi

If smoking keris means giving it incense, be careful as incense is the real food for the keris and only powerful keris with soul should be given incense. Indonesian collectors do not give incense to keris in collection. Only personal keris as worn on ceremony are given incense.

I consider most of the keris in my collection to be personal and ceremonial. Even so, what would be the danger of feeding a keris that is souless and not powerful? It might be a waste of my time, but why would i need to be careful?

Mudi · 12th July 2006, 04:39 AM

But what was Javanese culture BEFORE the arrival of Hindu/Buddhist infuence?

Same as US and Europe. Very primitive. Too bad we cannot ask Java Man

I consider most of the keris in my collection to be personal and ceremonial. Even so, what would be the danger of feeding a keris that is souless and not powerful? It might be a waste of my time, but why would i need to be careful?

All I can say is what I know of my own culture. No point in feeding a lion unless you need the lion to be strong for you.

A. G. Maisey · 12th July 2006, 05:04 AM

Yes, I agree, a waste of time to feed any lion.

A lion can seek his own food.

But a bajing?

A bajing needs to dart here and there in search of food, and when we wish to catch him in the trap we usually allow him to eat for a few days first.

In respect of Javanese culture, perhaps we should draw a distinction between the culture of the courts and the culture of the people.

nechesh · 12th July 2006, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudi

But what was Javanese culture BEFORE the arrival of Hindu/Buddhist infuence?

Same as US and Europe. Very primitive. Too bad we cannot ask Java Man

I consider most of the keris in my collection to be personal and ceremonial. Even so, what would be the danger of feeding a keris that is souless and not powerful? It might be a waste of my time, but why would i need to be careful?

All I can say is what I know of my own culture. No point in feeding a lion unless you need the lion to be strong for you.

My first point was that it was an animistic cultural, from which there are many culture hold-overs even to this day. Your response to Bill was that Jawa was not animistic before Islam.

Certainly i wasn't suggesting that you don't know your only culture. I was just curious about what appeared to be a warning you made not to feed a keris that has no power (is souless). If, in fact, it has no power then what harm can come of it?
Frankly, i need all my lions to be strong.

Mudi · 12th July 2006, 06:50 AM

My first point was that it was an animistic cultural, from which there are many culture hold-overs even to this day.

Sorry but I do not understand what you mean. In many parts of Indonesia there are still tribal culture. Do you mean Java was tribal before Islam?

Your response to Bill was that Jawa was not animistic before Islam.

Yes, Java was not animist before Islam. That is true. It was a high culture of Hindu and Buddhist.

If you give incense to a keris you can give it life again. The same is for topeng barong. We believe that if you feed keris, and then stop it can turn on you or bring bad luck.

12th July 2006, 01:44 AM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	I agree with Rick. While the blade is certainly the most important part of any keris it would also be disrespectful to keep a nice keris in battered or damaged dress. I tend to agree with you Bill about the showing of keris, but i also umderstand that every collector will have their own personal relationship with their collection and i certainly can't slight anyone if they choose to display their keris to the entire world. I am actually quite grateful to those who are willing to do this since it gives me an opportunity to see a lot of nice keris and helps greatly in my studies. Personally i would rather show my keris only to those i choose to, one person at a time. I'm with you on most of the rest, but i am not so sure why i should smoke my keris on Thursday nights here in the U.S. or elsewhere. I could be wrong, but i had always associated that with Islamic tradition. Since i am not Molsem nor do i use my keris in an Islamic manner i don't personally see the need for that particular timing. The keris has been important in both Hindu (perhaps even pre-Hindu) and Islamic Indonesian culture and i think the proper day for smoking the blade is probaly different depending on your cultural beliefs. The keris seems willing to adapt itself to different religious belief systems. What i think IS important is that you DO smoke and oil the blades, at least for me. I have never heard this taboo on smelling the blade. I wonder if this applies to the owner, who is, afterall, the one who is feeding the keris, or just to others who might be shown the blade. If i showed someone else one of my keris and they sniffed the blade i think i might see that as rude. The same applies to striking the blade with your finger to hear it's resonance.

12th July 2006, 03:00 AM	#2
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	David, I think that you are right about the timing of smoking a keris. I was told Thursday night, because that would most likely be as close to the right night in Java. But I may have that wrong. I would wonder if the spirit of the keris is Islamic oriented. Best I can tell the Indonesian version of Islam is a thin veneer over an animistic culture with its roots in the Neolithic. So, perhaps, the keris (the Muslims have been here at least 400 years or so), could be Islamic oriented, over an animistic belief or it could be OR -- as I suspect -- a more pure spirit. I also know that most of my keris have not been regularly smoked. I have heard that not feeding the spirit could caues his departure. So I would guess that most of my keris are empty houses. Beautiful empty houses, but the spirit is gone. But the house is there. All it needs is a little turnkey. Some cleaning and polishing. The advertise for a new tenant. Then take care of him and he takes care of you! Perhaps this is a crude attempt to explain a more beautiful and certainly more complex process, but a simple concept underlies this complexity. In my 40 years of managing property, it has worked for me. So how to attract a spirit back? Perhaps instead of Thursday night, we could work a little bit Western and find the right astrological time for our Moonchild ritual and bring a spirit into his new home. . . .

12th July 2006, 04:12 AM	#3
Mudi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Makassar, (Ujung Pandang), Sulawesi, Indonesia Posts: 38	In Indonesia there are many keris exhibition. What is important is that the keris not point to the ground when out of sarong. It is true that Islam in Indonesia is not same as Arab or Middle East. The keris origin in Indonesia is from Majapahit empire, which was Hindu and Buddhist mix. Many of the Majapahit culture stay with Indonesia as Islam came as gamelan, wayang kulit, batik, dance. The Javanese culture prior to Islam was not animist. The Majapahit was very high culture and with great art. Borobudur temple is the largest Buddhist temple in the world and dates to 800AD. If smoking keris means giving it incense, be careful as incense is the real food for the keris and only powerful keris with soul should be given incense. Indonesian collectors do not give incense to keris in collection. Only personal keris as worn on ceremony are given incense.

12th July 2006, 04:39 AM	#5
Mudi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Makassar, (Ujung Pandang), Sulawesi, Indonesia Posts: 38	But what was Javanese culture BEFORE the arrival of Hindu/Buddhist infuence? Same as US and Europe. Very primitive. Too bad we cannot ask Java Man I consider most of the keris in my collection to be personal and ceremonial. Even so, what would be the danger of feeding a keris that is souless and not powerful? It might be a waste of my time, but why would i need to be careful? All I can say is what I know of my own culture. No point in feeding a lion unless you need the lion to be strong for you.

12th July 2006, 05:04 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,736	Yes, I agree, a waste of time to feed any lion. A lion can seek his own food. But a bajing? A bajing needs to dart here and there in search of food, and when we wish to catch him in the trap we usually allow him to eat for a few days first. In respect of Javanese culture, perhaps we should draw a distinction between the culture of the courts and the culture of the people.

12th July 2006, 06:50 AM	#8
Mudi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Makassar, (Ujung Pandang), Sulawesi, Indonesia Posts: 38	My first point was that it was an animistic cultural, from which there are many culture hold-overs even to this day. Sorry but I do not understand what you mean. In many parts of Indonesia there are still tribal culture. Do you mean Java was tribal before Islam? Your response to Bill was that Jawa was not animistic before Islam. Yes, Java was not animist before Islam. That is true. It was a high culture of Hindu and Buddhist. If you give incense to a keris you can give it life again. The same is for topeng barong. We believe that if you feed keris, and then stop it can turn on you or bring bad luck.