Indonesian golok ? Information wanted

klewang · 26th September 2009, 07:37 PM

Hello there,
I recently signt up for this forum and i'm curicous if anyone here could help me with this one. The previous owner refferded to it as an Indonesian cunderik, but i have my doubts about the fact that they named it a cunderik.
To me it seems more like an golok, although not a common one and likely from Sumatera or West-java , judging it from the hilt (wich unfortunately has a crack in its metal covering).
If anyone here could give me some more information about its age, origin and more,i would like to hear, every response is welcome.
By the way English is not my native language, but you probably already have noticed that

.

Greeting from The Netherlands

klewang · 28th September 2009, 09:33 PM

Did some "research" on the web and came across a few goloks with a similar shape of blade as mine has. They were described as golok Bengkulu.
Does anyone here knows more about these and perhaps confirm if mine could be one?

Thanks.

Maurice · 28th September 2009, 11:18 PM

Welcome to the forum klewang!

I looked in the book of van Zonneveld. There you can find a description of the "chunderik" or "chundrik":

Chunderik:
"The name given to weapons of widely differing forms. For instance: a long sabre, a klewang or a small dagger the blade and hilt of which are forged from one piece and thus related to the so-called keris majapahit. The "chunderik" may sometimes serve as the point of a spear."

I wouldn't call your sword a "golok" either. Although all my indonesian friends call everything a "golok", whenever you can say in dutch "kapmes".
I would just call it some kind of little Javanese sword.
But I think yours is no piece used as working tool for "een paar boompjes om te hakken"

, but used as some kind of status symbol.

vriendelijke groet,
Maurice

Amuk Murugul · 29th September 2009, 12:31 AM

Hullo everybody,

The item you have there is what is called a Gobang Soenda (gobang=sabel=sabre).
They were worn by Soenda Senapati (military officers) as far back as the 15thC (perhaps even earlier).
Not surprising that it is sometimes referred to as 'Golok Bengkulu' since that area was a busy area of commerce for the Soenda during the 14th-15thC and people not familiar with Soenda weaponry generally refer to any long knife as a 'golok' (although a golok forms only part of a warrior's standard 'wear').

I have attached a photo of similar items.

mvg.

Best,

CharlesS · 29th September 2009, 02:14 PM

I am wondering if the size(small) and awkward way these seem to handle, particularly the ones with the very short, heavily curved blades, makes these more of a status or ceremonial piece.....especially after having read the above thread.

klewang · 29th September 2009, 07:57 PM

Hoi Maurice, thanks for replying and the welcome, a pleasure to be here!

Amuk Murugul, thanks for the information, it is better than i had hoped for...

They were worn by Soenda Senapati (military officers) as far back as the 15thC (perhaps even earlier).

My first guess is that they might be more recent because of the apparently European influence on the scabbards foot, a bit like some Parang Nabur.
May i ask what source you used? Are they being mentioned in a book that you might know of ? Also thanks for posting the photo, where was it taken? mvg

CharlesS, the blade on mine is quite sharp and it has some marks of usage on it, but i dont think it has the most effectiveness in actual combat compared to other weaponry, so i wonder too.

KuKulzA28 · 29th September 2009, 09:39 PM

I've heard the golok bengkulu, when used, is only effective at slashes thanks to its extreme curve. It is, however, VERY good at making drawn saber-cuts thanks to its shape. The same idea can be said about the Chinese pian-dao which had been developed to be a slashing sword for the Tiger skirmishers.

My guess is that it isn't the main weapon if it is so small, since generating powerful slashes at such a close range, while absolutely possible, is a lot slower than a quick stabs from a pedang or pisau. However I wouldn't rule it out because remember, the barong was not used as a stabber, but was definitely a close-in cleaver and ranged from around 10-24" (~25-61cm) blade length. I still stands today as a very effective big blade / shortsword in close-quarters combat. Perhaps due to the fighting style and conditions, the small 'Golok' did find use and these "with the very short, heavily curved blades" were used as close-in slashers to do wicked damage. Also remember, the Chilean corvo was used to lob off enemy heads... and these are hook-shaped combat knives, not long knives nor shortswords.

I don't know the Indonesian world of weapons that well, nor any field of weaponry truthfully...

but this is what I think based on what I know.

klewang · 30th September 2009, 03:58 PM

Well i'm no expert either KuKulzA28, but fortunately there's a forum like this one!

26th September 2009, 07:37 PM	#1
klewang Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 23	Indonesian golok ? Information wanted Hello there, I recently signt up for this forum and i'm curicous if anyone here could help me with this one. The previous owner refferded to it as an Indonesian cunderik, but i have my doubts about the fact that they named it a cunderik. To me it seems more like an golok, although not a common one and likely from Sumatera or West-java , judging it from the hilt (wich unfortunately has a crack in its metal covering). If anyone here could give me some more information about its age, origin and more,i would like to hear, every response is welcome. By the way English is not my native language, but you probably already have noticed that . Greeting from The Netherlands Attached Images

29th September 2009, 12:31 AM	#4
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 457	Hullo everybody, The item you have there is what is called a Gobang Soenda (gobang=sabel=sabre). They were worn by Soenda Senapati (military officers) as far back as the 15thC (perhaps even earlier). Not surprising that it is sometimes referred to as 'Golok Bengkulu' since that area was a busy area of commerce for the Soenda during the 14th-15thC and people not familiar with Soenda weaponry generally refer to any long knife as a 'golok' (although a golok forms only part of a warrior's standard 'wear'). I have attached a photo of similar items. mvg. Best, Attached Images

28th September 2009, 09:33 PM	#2
klewang Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 23	Did some "research" on the web and came across a few goloks with a similar shape of blade as mine has. They were described as golok Bengkulu. Does anyone here knows more about these and perhaps confirm if mine could be one? Thanks.

28th September 2009, 11:18 PM	#3
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,324	Welcome to the forum klewang! I looked in the book of van Zonneveld. There you can find a description of the "chunderik" or "chundrik": Chunderik: "The name given to weapons of widely differing forms. For instance: a long sabre, a klewang or a small dagger the blade and hilt of which are forged from one piece and thus related to the so-called keris majapahit. The "chunderik" may sometimes serve as the point of a spear." I wouldn't call your sword a "golok" either. Although all my indonesian friends call everything a "golok", whenever you can say in dutch "kapmes". I would just call it some kind of little Javanese sword. But I think yours is no piece used as working tool for "een paar boompjes om te hakken" , but used as some kind of status symbol. vriendelijke groet, Maurice

29th September 2009, 02:14 PM	#5
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,855	I am wondering if the size(small) and awkward way these seem to handle, particularly the ones with the very short, heavily curved blades, makes these more of a status or ceremonial piece.....especially after having read the above thread.

29th September 2009, 07:57 PM	#6
klewang Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 23	Hoi Maurice, thanks for replying and the welcome, a pleasure to be here! Amuk Murugul, thanks for the information, it is better than i had hoped for... *They were worn by Soenda Senapati (military officers) as far back as the 15thC (perhaps even earlier).* My first guess is that they might be more recent because of the apparently European influence on the scabbards foot, a bit like some Parang Nabur. May i ask what source you used? Are they being mentioned in a book that you might know of ? Also thanks for posting the photo, where was it taken? mvg CharlesS, the blade on mine is quite sharp and it has some marks of usage on it, but i dont think it has the most effectiveness in actual combat compared to other weaponry, so i wonder too.

29th September 2009, 09:39 PM	#7
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	I've heard the golok bengkulu, when used, is only effective at slashes thanks to its extreme curve. It is, however, VERY good at making drawn saber-cuts thanks to its shape. The same idea can be said about the Chinese pian-dao which had been developed to be a slashing sword for the Tiger skirmishers. My guess is that it isn't the main weapon if it is so small, since generating powerful slashes at such a close range, while absolutely possible, is a lot slower than a quick stabs from a pedang or pisau. However I wouldn't rule it out because remember, the barong was not used as a stabber, but was definitely a close-in cleaver and ranged from around 10-24" (~25-61cm) blade length. I still stands today as a very effective big blade / shortsword in close-quarters combat. Perhaps due to the fighting style and conditions, the small 'Golok' did find use and these "with the very short, heavily curved blades" were used as close-in slashers to do wicked damage. Also remember, the Chilean corvo was used to lob off enemy heads... and these are hook-shaped combat knives, not long knives nor shortswords. I don't know the Indonesian world of weapons that well, nor any field of weaponry truthfully... but this is what I think based on what I know.

30th September 2009, 03:58 PM	#8
klewang Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 23	Well i'm no expert either KuKulzA28, but fortunately there's a forum like this one!