Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 24th December 2004, 01:01 PM   #1
casey
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 13
Default opinions on my kerises

Hi all,
I was given 24 kerises by a good friend who had been collecting weapons for about 40 years.Unfortunately we did'nt have a chance to get into detail about them,He just told me that some of them are of a high quality and there are some very old ones.Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Attached Images
          

Last edited by casey : 24th December 2004 at 08:37 PM. Reason: can post pics
casey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th December 2004, 01:29 PM   #2
Rick
Member
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,818
Smile Re Pics

From the forum guidelines :

DIRECT IMAGE UPLOADING from your computer to the server is now available in the form of ‘attachments’. The pictures will not show when you are composing your posts, but may be checked in the preview mode, where they show at the bottom of the post. You may include up to 10 images per post. You are encouraged to use this mechanism in order to maximize the archival integrity of the forum.

Images which may be uploaded to the server include .jpeg (or .jpg), .png, .gif and .bmp. The width of the image must be 640 ( I think Lee has enabled 800 ) pixels or less in width and 1280 pixels or less in height or the image will be rejected. A maximum file size constraint of 200 kb is also in effect. If you do not have means to resize images within these constraints, you may e-mail them to ljones@vikingsword.com. The resized images will be returned in due course by e-mail for you to use in your posting.

If you're having resizing problems feel free to contact any staff members .

Looking forward to pix .

Welcome !
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th December 2004, 02:19 PM   #3
nechesh
Member
 
nechesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 940
Default On the first day of Kerismas.....

Welcome Casey. We look forward to seeing your collection. Anyone who would give 24 keris to you, especially if any are high quality or old, must be a very good friend indeed. It appears you will be having a very merry Kerismas.
nechesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2004, 03:51 PM   #4
Lee
EAAF Staff
 
Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upstate New York, USA
Posts: 727
Default

Here is a clearer rendition of the first picture above:
Attached Images
 
Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2004, 04:32 PM   #5
nechesh
Member
 
nechesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 940
Default

Hi Casey, you have a mix of quality and styles here. I find the 3rd image of the Bali keris to perhaps be the best blade among them, but that's pretty subjective. Most of your pieces could use some restortation of some sort if you are into doing that with your collection.
The keris singo (lion) looks like it might be interesting. It's hard to judge with your photos because they appear to be on the point of pixelating, making it difficult to make out detail. It would also be nice to see the entire blade of your keris as one can not get a feel for the flow of the design in the entire blade. This is an essential part to the overall appreciation and assessment of a good keris.
Your friend has started you off witrh quite an interesting collection. Few of us ever got such a nice opening opportunity. Congrats! I look forward to seeing more of your new found passion. You're hooked now.
Is there some reason why you friend sudden gave you these. Has he given up collecting.
nechesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th December 2004, 09:24 AM   #6
Henk
Member
 
Henk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,203
Default

Nechesh is right. A very mixed collection. But a very nice start to begin with.

1. Keris solo, Java, Pamor bulut ayam.
2. This is a maduran keris. The first tourist keris for the dutch soldiers who came home during and after the war. I use to call this a KNIL keris. Koninklijk (Royal) Nederlands (Dutch) Indisch (Indonesian) Leger (Army). The keris itself is a real and good keris. The dress however was made of a cheap piece of wood and carved quickly. You see them still regularly.
3. Nice bali keris with a pendok on the back side. Would be nice to see a picture of it. The mendak is missing.
4. A real balinese tourist keris.
5. Balinese tombak. In my opinion for tourists.
6. Jogya keris, Java. Keris singa. The sitting lion. I think a very nice one.
7. Balinese keris with a walikat sandang scabbard. Very nice. Here too is the mendak missing.
8. Bugis keris. And a good one. Please turn the ukiran (the grip) 90 degrees to the other side.
9. Keris madura. The inlay under the pendok is turtle shell. This ukiran should be turned too 90 degrees.
10. Keris solo, Java.

You have a couple of nice keris. Some care is necesarry but it was a gift. I would be happy too when my friend came with a box with 24 kerisses.
Henk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th December 2004, 01:25 PM   #7
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
Default

Hmmm... pamor is not my forte, but I don't think the pamor on the Solo keris is bulu ayam. Maybe more like "floating water weed" or something.
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2004, 05:05 AM   #8
rasdan
Member
 
rasdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 330
Default

Hi,

I think Blu is correct, the pamor is 'gaggeng kanyut'.
rasdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2004, 12:43 PM   #9
DAHenkel
Member
 
DAHenkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 125
Default

the no. 8 piece is Peninsular Malay - likely Terengganu. A good serviceable example.

The hilt should face the same direction as the one pictured in my avatar.
DAHenkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2005, 03:38 PM   #10
Sang Keris
Member
 
Sang Keris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 46
Send a message via MSN to Sang Keris
Default

well its absolutely not a " bulu ayam ",.......

i think blu is right , it's ganggeng ganyut ,

or could be another pamor ....... can i see some more picture of this keris ???
Sang Keris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2005, 06:10 PM   #11
casey
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 13
Smile

I hope these pics are a bit better.Would love all opinions I can get I'm enjoying this site very much and learning slowly.I hope to oneday actually be confident with my own opinions. Thanks. Case
Attached Images
            
casey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2005, 08:28 PM   #12
nechesh
Member
 
nechesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 940
Default

Hi Casey. The first 3 look like fairly nice new keris, late 20th century. The last 3 are older. #4, the Bugis keris looks like a fairly nice one that could use a good restaining to really raise the pamor pattern. The 23 luk (#6) keris is pretty unusual, anything truly old with that many curves would be. Turn the handle around so it faces like the others. #5 looks like it could be pamor Adeg of some sort, again in need of restaining. #2 and #3 have nice modern examples of rare Jawa hilt forms.
I know you are anxious to find out about these blades you've been gifted, but it might be less confusing if you presented fewer at a time. One ot two would be ideal so people can really focus on what you are presenting and give you more indepth descriptions and analysis.
nechesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2005, 01:18 AM   #13
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
Default

Hey, nice jawa demam on the riau keris. The 'lattice'-work on the buah pinang (the 'ball' on which the figure sits) is a less common feature, and in this case, quite nicely carved. The jawa demam also has a more 'alive and fleshy' feel to it. The tilt of the head is graceful, a little minus point is that his garuda mungkur (the pointed trangular feature at the top of the hilt) is a bit broken at the tip.
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2005, 02:30 AM   #14
casey
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 13
Smile

Sorry Nechesh I'm like a kid in a candy store.Here are two that I like for no particular reason they just appeal to me.I will start with them and won't bambard you all with pics.Thanks for your reply and also BlueErf.I think you are commenting on #4 and #5 is that right ? Sorry for my ignorance,total novice but I want to make sure that I can place what you are taking the time out to tell me Thanks Case
Attached Images
     
casey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2005, 03:56 AM   #15
nechesh
Member
 
nechesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 940
Default

No problem Casey, i understand your enthusiasm. You've been stradled with a heavy burden here, If only i could be so cursed.
Again you have present one new keris and one old. The first one is a modern 3 luk keris singo (lion) in Yogyakarta gayaman (everyday) dress. The second is older (19thC ?) in Surakarta Ladrang (formal) dress. I'd like to see this one restained because the pamor looks like it may be interesting. Almost looks like writing (Islamic) on the blade, which is certainly not beyond possibilities.
nechesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2005, 04:40 AM   #16
casey
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 13
Default

Good spotting Nechesh I didnt know if the writing would be noticeable from the pics.I am not game enough to try and clean the blades yet need to learn more about them and be cleer on the correct techniques.Is writing on the blade unusual? thanks Case
casey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2005, 04:50 AM   #17
nechesh
Member
 
nechesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 940
Default

Well, i've seen a lot of it on blades made for tourist trade, but this blade does not appear to be one of those to me, in which case i will say that i do find it somewhat uncommon. Does the writing appear to be made of pamor material or perhaps silver?
nechesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2005, 05:06 AM   #18
casey
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 13
Smile

Hard to say Nechesh it does seem a little different to normal pamor but I wouldn,t call it either way it needs to be cleaned to get a better idea.I have been reading some other threads and would like to know if soaking these blades in vinager would be a good start? Any suggestions.
casey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2005, 05:16 AM   #19
nechesh
Member
 
nechesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 940
Default

I would use a good fruit acid. Personally i have used pineapple juice. Wash the blade thoughly with distilled water and a gentle dish detergent to remove dirt and oils. A tooth brush comes in real handy for scrubbing. You may need to soak it for a few days to remove any rust, brushing it down a couple of times a day. Depends how much rust there is. Here's a good thread on the subject:
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000717.html
It late here in the States so we can pick this up later if you respond.
nechesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2005, 05:22 AM   #20
casey
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 13
Default

Look forward to it Nechesh Iwill check out the thread and possibly get to work on them. Case
casey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2005, 07:52 AM   #21
Henk
Member
 
Henk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,203
Default

Nechesh is right about the writing on this keris. It is not uncommon. I only doubt, but it is hard to see on these pictures if it is Islamatic writing. It also could be writng in the old Indonesian language. I cann't remember the name for that language anymore. You can also clean the blade with lime juice. Maybe you can find somebody who can bring up the pamor for you again with arsenic to restore the blade completely.
Henk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2005, 12:44 AM   #22
Sang Keris
Member
 
Sang Keris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 46
Send a message via MSN to Sang Keris
Default

well , that's absolutely arabic....

after you clean it and put it in arsenicum ,

those letter will show up clearly ,like the one i got ( pic attached )
Attached Images
 
Sang Keris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2005, 01:46 PM   #23
Henk
Member
 
Henk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,203
Default

Sang keris,
Yours is arab writing, but Casey's one could be the old Indonesian writing. He should stick it in the arsenic as well. I do own a keris with writing in that old Indonesian writing and Casey's pictures are not clear enough to tell that with 100% certainty.
Henk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2005, 02:05 PM   #24
Sang Keris
Member
 
Sang Keris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 46
Send a message via MSN to Sang Keris
Default

well henk, could be....

u mean old javanese ?
Sang Keris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 12:09 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.