Ottoman or Caucasian pistol for comment

Valjhun · 22nd May 2018, 10:16 AM

Arrived today. I'm happy

The best gun in my collecton.

Profusely decorated stock, ball pommel, Scandella lock.
Scandella was a gunsmith active in Florence 1725-1740, according to Gaibi.

The ball pommel is somehow typical for the Caucasus region, but the decoration seems to me more ottoman-balkan.

What do you think?

Is it more likely that scandella produced locks fo export or that it was remounted from an older gun?

corrado26 · 22nd May 2018, 02:00 PM

Interesting pistol but I think that the stock and the lock originally didn't belong together. The lock doesn't fit exactly into the stock, because the lockplate is obviously smaller than the opening in the stock. So I think that Scandella cannot be the maker of this pistol.
corrado26

Kubur · 22nd May 2018, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

I think that the stock and the lock originally didn't belong together. The lock doesn't fit exactly into the stock, because the lockplate is obviously smaller than the opening in the stock.

This is not a problem with Ottoman/Balkan/Turkish pistols, many locks don't fit properly to the stock. Just dirty Ottoman work...

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

So I think that Scandella cannot be the maker of this pistol.

I agree with you.
The Italian lock was just imported & / or reused.

Kubur · 22nd May 2018, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valjhun

The ball pommel is somehow typical for the Caucasus region, but the decoration seems to me more ottoman-balkan.

For Oliver it's a Ottoman Syrian pistol.
For me it's Ottoman Turkish, it's the reason why this pistol looks like Caucasus/Balkans...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valjhun

Is it more likely that scandella produced locks fo export or that it was remounted from an older gun?

One or both

They call these pistols Ball Butts

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=ball+butt

Will M · 23rd May 2018, 02:19 AM

Beautiful inlay work and colours. Does the ball have weight to it for balancing the pistol? What calibre is the pistol and what thickness the barrel?

Martin Lubojacky · 23rd May 2018, 06:51 PM

Hi Valjhun,
The adornment and metal inlay work in the wooden parts is very nice, but still - and I apologize for such a question in advance (more so not being expert in this field) - how old do you think the wooden parts are ? IMHO exactly this (nice) work is characteristic (among many others - of course, but predominantly) for the Turkish region around Gazi Antep (production of chracteristic furniture and wooden boxes). This "indoustry" is flourishing there for centuries till now and the older the item - the measlier the inlay work... This adornment is not, I think, typical for the Caucasus region (and on the other side, the ball pommel is, as you wrote)
Best
Martin

rickystl · 26th May 2018, 03:19 PM

Hi Valjhun

That is a very nice Balkan, Ball Butt Pistol. And the stock appears to have all of it's inlays and wire decoration. Rare to find these pistols with their stocks in such nice, complete condition.
I notice the trigger guard also has a very Italian style to it. So the lock, guard, and probably the barrel were all imported, and the gun assembled somewhere in the Balkans. The use of imported locks, barrels, and hardware being very common.
The lock is not only marked, but the styling, with it's chisel work also looks very Italian. As Kubur mentioned, you often see Eastern, locally assembled guns that appear decent made, but with lock inletting to the stock being sub-par compared to the rest of the gun. This has always been somewhat of a mystery to me. But in this case, with the above photos, it does appear the lock was replaced at some point. Possibly the original lock was damaged and it was easier to replace it than repair the original (?) But then, the Italian origin of the lock matches with the trigger guard style. Hmmmm
If you couls post some additional photos, including one of the left side of the gun and a top view showing the barrel and tang. And, a pic of the priming pan, with the hammer at half-cock and the frizzen forward showing the relationship of the pan to the vent hole. This might also give us a clue as to the lock history.

Thanks for posting this great looking pistol. Would sure not mind having it in my collection.

Rick

22nd May 2018, 10:16 AM	#1
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Ottoman or Caucasian pistol for comment Arrived today. I'm happy The best gun in my collecton. Profusely decorated stock, ball pommel, Scandella lock. Scandella was a gunsmith active in Florence 1725-1740, according to Gaibi. The ball pommel is somehow typical for the Caucasus region, but the decoration seems to me more ottoman-balkan. What do you think? Is it more likely that scandella produced locks fo export or that it was remounted from an older gun? Attached Images

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22nd May 2018, 02:00 PM	#2
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,166	Interesting pistol but I think that the stock and the lock originally didn't belong together. The lock doesn't fit exactly into the stock, because the lockplate is obviously smaller than the opening in the stock. So I think that Scandella cannot be the maker of this pistol. corrado26

23rd May 2018, 02:19 AM	#5
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 390	Beautiful inlay work and colours. Does the ball have weight to it for balancing the pistol? What calibre is the pistol and what thickness the barrel?

23rd May 2018, 06:51 PM	#6
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 836	Hi Valjhun, The adornment and metal inlay work in the wooden parts is very nice, but still - and I apologize for such a question in advance (more so not being expert in this field) - how old do you think the wooden parts are ? IMHO exactly this (nice) work is characteristic (among many others - of course, but predominantly) for the Turkish region around Gazi Antep (production of chracteristic furniture and wooden boxes). This "indoustry" is flourishing there for centuries till now and the older the item - the measlier the inlay work... This adornment is not, I think, typical for the Caucasus region (and on the other side, the ball pommel is, as you wrote) Best Martin

26th May 2018, 03:19 PM	#7
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Hi Valjhun That is a very nice Balkan, Ball Butt Pistol. And the stock appears to have all of it's inlays and wire decoration. Rare to find these pistols with their stocks in such nice, complete condition. I notice the trigger guard also has a very Italian style to it. So the lock, guard, and probably the barrel were all imported, and the gun assembled somewhere in the Balkans. The use of imported locks, barrels, and hardware being very common. The lock is not only marked, but the styling, with it's chisel work also looks very Italian. As Kubur mentioned, you often see Eastern, locally assembled guns that appear decent made, but with lock inletting to the stock being sub-par compared to the rest of the gun. This has always been somewhat of a mystery to me. But in this case, with the above photos, it does appear the lock was replaced at some point. Possibly the original lock was damaged and it was easier to replace it than repair the original (?) But then, the Italian origin of the lock matches with the trigger guard style. Hmmmm If you couls post some additional photos, including one of the left side of the gun and a top view showing the barrel and tang. And, a pic of the priming pan, with the hammer at half-cock and the frizzen forward showing the relationship of the pan to the vent hole. This might also give us a clue as to the lock history. Thanks for posting this great looking pistol. Would sure not mind having it in my collection. Rick