Bugis keris :Owned by or a gift to Makassar walikota 1967 ?

A. G. Maisey · 18th October 2018, 12:28 AM

No dispute about any of that David, however:-

"What does M. Dg Patompo means?. One Sulawesi friend mentioned that is "Walikota Makassar" .
This is what Green wrote. He questioned meaning, not who the person was.

What I wrote was that "daeng" does not mean "walikota",yes, certainly , the gentleman concerned might have been the mayor, but this was not what Green asked. Apart from this, my explanation was directed at the street name that you gave, and this included "H" the abbreviation for "haji", Green did not include "H".

Mohamad is a very common name in Indonesia, and maybe Patompo is a bit like "Smith" or "Brown".

What I gave was an explanation of the acronyms, and I made mention of the fact that this name belonged to a very well known Singapore businessman of Bugis descent. I believe that you have possibly identified the actual person who was involved with this keris in one way or another. Good work.

David · 18th October 2018, 04:02 AM

Alan, i am taking into account that English is not Green's first language, so when he asked "What does M. Dg Patompo means?" and it obviously looks like a person's name i am going to make the assumption that what Green is actually seeking is information about the person, that perhaps he has confused "what" for "who". The only reason that i posted the street address was because that was the first thing that turned up in my searches, though because i also found this name listed as a author of some writing i thought perhaps the address was named after this person, much in the way you might find Ronald Reagan Highway on a map in the United States.

A. G. Maisey · 18th October 2018, 05:00 AM

Yes, understood David.

I admit, I do have a fault in that when somebody asks a question, or answers a question I tend to automatically take that literally. Probably something to do with what I have done for most of my life to earn a living, regrettably it can be quite difficult to take suppositions into a board room, or a court of law.

Another reason for the way in which I responded is that I knew the answers, I knew the acronyms, I'd read about the Singapore merchant, so I did not have the advantage of having Dr. Google behind me, and actually right at the moment, I didn't have time to consult him.

David · 18th October 2018, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes, understood David.

I admit, I do have a fault in that when somebody asks a question, or answers a question I tend to automatically take that literally. Probably something to do with what I have done for most of my life to earn a living, regrettably it can be quite difficult to take suppositions into a board room, or a court of law.

Another reason for the way in which I responded is that I knew the answers, I knew the acronyms, I'd read about the Singapore merchant, so I did not have the advantage of having Dr. Google behind me, and actually right at the moment, I didn't have time to consult him.

Yes, Dr. Google can be an amazing tool for finding answers...except when he is not. LOL!

Green · 18th October 2018, 11:52 PM

David;

Absolutely true that English is not my native /first language ,although i sometimes imagine that mine is almost as good as Nabokov's (just joking!)...I did mean exactly what I asked... "what" is patompo because i thought it might mean something other than a person's name. I should probably be more precise and rephrased it as "who or what is patompo" etc.

Many thanks for that link and your explanation. That thesis looks very interesting. I hope it is ok for me to download and make it into a hardcopy.

Alan;

Also; many thanks for your excellent response as usual. The explanation on the name is also very fascinating. Was he (Patompo the rich Bugis living in Singapore in the early 20th century) the same as the Walikota mentioned by David, do you think?

A question that is still not answered is , is this keris a gift to this gentleman Haji Daeng Muhammad Patompo (walikota?) or one originally belonged to him.

My feeling is, since he seemed to be a very wealthy person (as Alan pointed) and an important man (Walikota) as David indicated, it most likely be a gift as the keris is nothing very special or ornate enough for a person of his stature.

It would be good if someone would suggest what kind of likely situation this kind of gifts was given, as I'm completely ignorant on Sulawesi Bugis culture.

I guess I can ask the seller but I don't think I can get much info and furthermore I value opinions of the keris lovers/experts in this forum.

A. G. Maisey · 19th October 2018, 01:27 AM

I'm pretty vacant on Bugis/Sulawesi too, so I'm not in any position to give opinions on the why and the wherefore.

However, my memory is that my Patompo moved to a better place in the early 20th century, maybe around 1920. This is all only memory, I read a magazine article on a plane a few years back, and like a lot of useless knowledge, it just stuck. Maybe the people who are good with google could find out if my Patompo and David's Patompo and the mayor were all the same person.

Or maybe its a "John Smith" situation.

18th October 2018, 12:28 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,729	No dispute about any of that David, however:- "What does M. Dg Patompo means?. One Sulawesi friend mentioned that is "Walikota Makassar" . This is what Green wrote. He questioned meaning, not who the person was. What I wrote was that "daeng" does not mean "walikota",yes, certainly , the gentleman concerned might have been the mayor, but this was not what Green asked. Apart from this, my explanation was directed at the street name that you gave, and this included "H" the abbreviation for "haji", Green did not include "H". Mohamad is a very common name in Indonesia, and maybe Patompo is a bit like "Smith" or "Brown". What I gave was an explanation of the acronyms, and I made mention of the fact that this name belonged to a very well known Singapore businessman of Bugis descent. I believe that you have possibly identified the actual person who was involved with this keris in one way or another. Good work.

18th October 2018, 04:02 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,041	Alan, i am taking into account that English is not Green's first language, so when he asked "What does M. Dg Patompo means?" and it obviously looks like a person's name i am going to make the assumption that what Green is actually seeking is information about the person, that perhaps he has confused "what" for "who". The only reason that i posted the street address was because that was the first thing that turned up in my searches, though because i also found this name listed as a author of some writing i thought perhaps the address was named after this person, much in the way you might find Ronald Reagan Highway on a map in the United States.

18th October 2018, 05:00 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,729	Yes, understood David. I admit, I do have a fault in that when somebody asks a question, or answers a question I tend to automatically take that literally. Probably something to do with what I have done for most of my life to earn a living, regrettably it can be quite difficult to take suppositions into a board room, or a court of law. Another reason for the way in which I responded is that I knew the answers, I knew the acronyms, I'd read about the Singapore merchant, so I did not have the advantage of having Dr. Google behind me, and actually right at the moment, I didn't have time to consult him.

18th October 2018, 11:52 PM	#5
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 307	David; Absolutely true that English is not my native /first language ,although i sometimes imagine that mine is almost as good as Nabokov's (just joking!)...I did mean exactly what I asked... "what" is patompo because i thought it might mean something other than a person's name. I should probably be more precise and rephrased it as "who or what is patompo" etc. Many thanks for that link and your explanation. That thesis looks very interesting. I hope it is ok for me to download and make it into a hardcopy. Alan; Also; many thanks for your excellent response as usual. The explanation on the name is also very fascinating. Was he (Patompo the rich Bugis living in Singapore in the early 20th century) the same as the Walikota mentioned by David, do you think? A question that is still not answered is , is this keris a gift to this gentleman Haji Daeng Muhammad Patompo (walikota?) or one originally belonged to him. My feeling is, since he seemed to be a very wealthy person (as Alan pointed) and an important man (Walikota) as David indicated, it most likely be a gift as the keris is nothing very special or ornate enough for a person of his stature. It would be good if someone would suggest what kind of likely situation this kind of gifts was given, as I'm completely ignorant on Sulawesi Bugis culture. I guess I can ask the seller but I don't think I can get much info and furthermore I value opinions of the keris lovers/experts in this forum.

19th October 2018, 01:27 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,729	I'm pretty vacant on Bugis/Sulawesi too, so I'm not in any position to give opinions on the why and the wherefore. However, my memory is that my Patompo moved to a better place in the early 20th century, maybe around 1920. This is all only memory, I read a magazine article on a plane a few years back, and like a lot of useless knowledge, it just stuck. Maybe the people who are good with google could find out if my Patompo and David's Patompo and the mayor were all the same person. Or maybe its a "John Smith" situation.