Paul Weller & Indian Weapons

Runjeet Singh · 20th July 2012, 11:22 AM

Paul Weller is a highly regarded English Singer-Songwriter and Guitarist. He rose to fame with the band 'The Jam' in 1972-1982, and before other joint ventures, he established himself as a solo artist, and soon became regarded as one of the British musical greats.

His most memorable song for me was 'You do something to me'.

Anyhow.....please click on the youtube link below for his official latest video, you may be in for a surprise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNyX826YMqg

estcrh · 21st July 2012, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runjeet Singh

Paul Weller is a highly regarded English Singer-Songwriter and Guitarist. He rose to fame with the band 'The Jam' in 1972-1982, and before other joint ventures, he established himself as a solo artist, and soon became regarded as one of the British musical greats.

His most memorable song for me was 'You do something to me'.

Anyhow.....please click on the youtube link below for his official latest video, you may be in for a surprise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNyX826YMqg

Runjeet, excellent Indian weapons and armor imagery...Paul Weller is a great musician as well. Here is a further link to Indian weapons use and fighting techniques.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Shastarvidiya

VANDOO · 22nd July 2012, 01:13 AM

A VERY INTERESTNG VIDEO

THE MASKS THE DEAMONS WEAR LOOK LIKE THOSE FROM SOUTH AMERICA. WHAT SORT OF POLE ARM IS THAT BEING USED AND ITS LEGNTH VID'S MAKE IT DIFFICULT TO TELL. A VERY WELL DONE VIDEO AND GOOD MUSIC TO GO ALONG WITH IT. IS THAT YOU AS THE NOBLE WARRIOR?

Atlantia · 22nd July 2012, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runjeet Singh

Paul Weller is a highly regarded English Singer-Songwriter and Guitarist. He rose to fame with the band 'The Jam' in 1972-1982, and before other joint ventures, he established himself as a solo artist, and soon became regarded as one of the British musical greats.

His most memorable song for me was 'You do something to me'.

Anyhow.....please click on the youtube link below for his official latest video, you may be in for a surprise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNyX826YMqg

Pah! One of the British Musical greats!
You need to take more water with it mate.

Bloody mods.

Seriously though, it'a bit of a departure form 'going underground'.

Runjeet. I'm imagining you on one of these now:

Atlantia · 22nd July 2012, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

A VERY INTERESTNG VIDEO

THE MASKS THE DEAMONS WEAR LOOK LIKE THOSE FROM SOUTH AMERICA. WHAT SORT OF POLE ARM IS THAT BEING USED AND ITS LEGNTH VID'S MAKE IT DIFFICULT TO TELL. A VERY WELL DONE VIDEO AND GOOD MUSIC TO GO ALONG WITH IT. IS THAT YOU AS THE NOBLE WARRIOR?

The polearm is a trishul.

Rick · 22nd July 2012, 01:49 AM

Enuff for now ....

Runjeet Singh · 24th July 2012, 09:53 AM

Dear all,
I don't know why the thread was locked but it's un-locked now.
I'm not complaining, it's good to see the hard-working moderators run a tight ship.

Vandoo,
I agree the masks are very cool, and no the Sikh warrior is not me!! (I'm not that scary). It's Nidar Singh (Sikh Martial Arts Instructor).

Estcrh,
Thanks for the youtube links.

Atlantia,
I'm not old enough to remember the mods and rockers era

Anyhow, I'm more of a four-wheeled guy! or a 'door-slammer' if you will.

Mod, or rocker, you have to admit this is beautiful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7JIbaIpwvA

Atlantia,
I'm imaging you like this:

katana · 24th July 2012, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runjeet Singh

Atlantia,
I'm imaging you like this:

Strange, I always saw Gene as a chauffered type of guy

.

David · 24th July 2012, 01:11 PM

Well Gentlemen, the thread was re-opened in the hopes that people would concentrate on weapons. Anymore posts of scooters or motorcycles or commentary on Mods vs. Rockers is likely to get it closed again.

Atlantia · 24th July 2012, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Well Gentlemen, the thread was re-opened in the hopes that people would concentrate on weapons. Anymore posts of scooters or motorcycles or commentary on Mods vs. Rockers is likely to get it closed again.

Blimey! So no right of reply for me after that?

Fair enough!

VANDOO · 24th July 2012, 03:23 PM

I CHECKED OUT THE TRISHUL AND CAME UP WITH THESE PICTURES GOOD OLD WIKIPEDIA. THIS IS A WEAPON BUT HAS EVEN STRONGER RELIGIOUS CONNECTIONS AS IT IS CLOSELY ASSOCIATED WITH GODS FROM SEVERAL RELIGIONS.
IN THE WEST WE JUST CALL IT THE TRIDENT AND THOUGH WE HAVE NO ACTUAL HISTORIC WEAPON OF ITS TYPE WE DO HAVE THE TRIDENT CLASS SUBMARINES. NO PICTURES OF SUBS THOUGH AS THAT GOES OFF TOPIC COOL BUT TOO CLOSE TO SCOOTERS

1.PICTURE OF A STATUE OF SHIVA WITH TRISHUL
2.PIC. OF THE SYMBOL OF THE CHAKRI DYNASTY, ROYAL HOUSE OF THAILAND. IT FEATURES THE TRISUL AS WELL AS ANOTHER WEAPON THE SUDARSHANA CHAKRA.
3. PIC A STYLIZED FORM ON TOP OF WAT ARUN MENORAU
4.DRAWING OF THE TRISUL
5.PIC. OFFERINGS TO GUNA DEVI

Atlantia · 24th July 2012, 04:18 PM

Hi Barry.

Europe does have a historical context for the trident. Neptune/Poseidon carries a Trident and in the UK depictions of Britannia with her trident are pretty much everywhere.
The Romans famously loved Gladiators armed with net and trident (retiarius).

Across India the Trisul with it's distinctive form shows up all over the place. Remember this:

spiral · 25th July 2012, 11:40 PM

I wonder if the Britannia trident was like many european pole arms based on peasents tools converted to weapons? Perhaps originaly a fish spear? Britannia rules the waves etc.... {hence the barbs to of course.}

which also may explain the Roman gladiators using it combined with a net?

spiral

fearn · 26th July 2012, 01:22 AM

I saw a reference that the Okinawan sai (tjabang, etc) occurred in India and was known as a trisul. I assume this was a miscue on the part of the author. Has anyone seen an Indian sai? (basically, a bar club with the forked guards?

Best,

F

VANDOO · 26th July 2012, 02:54 AM

HERE ARE SOME OTHER EXAMPLES OF TRISHUL / TRIDENT FORMS.
# 1. CHINESE SWORD BREAKER
2. 3, 4, BALI TRISHUL
5. JAPANESE SWORD CATCHER
6. INDONESIAN TRIDENT BLADE
7. TWO CEYLON SPEAR
8. INDONESIAN TRIDENT.

THERE IS A CHINESE POLE ARM OFTEN REFERRED TO AS A TIGER SPEAR THAT IS A TRIDENT FORM BUT I HAVEN'T LOCATED A PICTURE YET.

Atlantia · 26th July 2012, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

I wonder if the Britannia trident was like many european pole arms based on peasents tools converted to weapons? Perhaps originaly a fish spear? Britannia rules the waves etc.... {hence the barbs to of course.}

which also may explain the Roman gladiators using it combined with a net?

spiral

Hi Mate,

You're bang-on I think with the Roman 'Retiarius'. It was a parody of fishing I believe.
You see! I always said fishing was a 'blood sport'

I'm not sure about the symbolism of Britannia.
If memory serves the depictions of her on Roman coins are bare headed, not wearing that Corinthian helmet that we always associate her with.
I'm not even sure if the trident isn't a later addition come to think of it.
I'd never though of the connection between Poseidon and Britannia as ruler of oceans with their tridents.
Good thought, makes sense.

spiral · 28th July 2012, 12:13 PM

Hi Gene,

Didnt even know they were called 'Retiarius' in truth, but internt search agrees it was a parody of fishing indeed! Weighted nets, tridents etc...

cheers,
J

fearn · 28th July 2012, 06:52 PM

Thinking about it, we've got a number of different influences going on with tridents. These include:

--multipronged and barbed fishing spears. This is purely functional, and based on the need to a) hit the fish, and b) keep it on the points. There are a number of forms from all over the world, anywhere people fish with spears. The classical trident actually appears to be a minority shape, actually.

--peasant forks, for hay, manure, etc. Again, these are tools, and I think they got weaponized in parts as military forks (although one reference suggests that military forks were also used for doing things like manipulating siege letters). Forks have been militarized elsewhere (China, India, Nepal), as shown above.

--tiger forks. These seem to be a primarily Chinese invention, and seem to be based on the same principle as the boar spear (e.g. keep the dangerous critter down at the pointy end of the shaft).

--Parrying weapons: as with the boar spear or tiger fork, the general principle is to catch the attacker (sword, spear, staff) and keep it from reaching you, and a fork is one way of catching a weapon. It's not ideal (especially in a small hand weapon), but it can work (especially when there's a long handle between you and the fork). Despite what some Karatekas say, sais reportedly work better on staffs than on swords, unless the swordsman doesn't know much about what he's doing.

--Oceanic symbolism: I think this primarily comes from the Mediterranean, where the trident became associated with Neptune and Poseidon. I'm pretty sure that the trident showed how "Brittania rules the waves."

--Trinitarian symbolism. In Christianity, we have God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. In Hinduism, we have Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, and so forth. Three is once of those highly symbolic numbers, which is why (I think) trisuls and tridents get used around temples quite a lot, especially in India and China. Interesting that in Christianity, the trident seems to be more the devil's fork than something associated with, say, monasteries.

So is it right to consider all tridents to be equal? I'm not sure. Fun topic though.

Best,

F

20th July 2012, 11:22 AM	#1
Runjeet Singh Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Warwickshire, England Posts: 150	Paul Weller & Indian Weapons Paul Weller is a highly regarded English Singer-Songwriter and Guitarist. He rose to fame with the band 'The Jam' in 1972-1982, and before other joint ventures, he established himself as a solo artist, and soon became regarded as one of the British musical greats. His most memorable song for me was 'You do something to me'. Anyhow.....please click on the youtube link below for his official latest video, you may be in for a surprise. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNyX826YMqg

22nd July 2012, 01:49 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Seems OT Enuff for now ....

24th July 2012, 09:53 AM	#7
Runjeet Singh Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Warwickshire, England Posts: 150	Dear all, I don't know why the thread was locked but it's un-locked now. I'm not complaining, it's good to see the hard-working moderators run a tight ship. Vandoo, I agree the masks are very cool, and no the Sikh warrior is not me!! (I'm not that scary). It's Nidar Singh (Sikh Martial Arts Instructor). Estcrh, Thanks for the youtube links. Atlantia, I'm not old enough to remember the mods and rockers era Anyhow, I'm more of a four-wheeled guy! or a 'door-slammer' if you will. Mod, or rocker, you have to admit this is beautiful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7JIbaIpwvA Atlantia, I'm imaging you like this: Attached Images

24th July 2012, 03:23 PM	#11
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I CHECKED OUT THE TRISHUL AND CAME UP WITH THESE PICTURES GOOD OLD WIKIPEDIA. THIS IS A WEAPON BUT HAS EVEN STRONGER RELIGIOUS CONNECTIONS AS IT IS CLOSELY ASSOCIATED WITH GODS FROM SEVERAL RELIGIONS. IN THE WEST WE JUST CALL IT THE TRIDENT AND THOUGH WE HAVE NO ACTUAL HISTORIC WEAPON OF ITS TYPE WE DO HAVE THE TRIDENT CLASS SUBMARINES. NO PICTURES OF SUBS THOUGH AS THAT GOES OFF TOPIC COOL BUT TOO CLOSE TO SCOOTERS 1.PICTURE OF A STATUE OF SHIVA WITH TRISHUL 2.PIC. OF THE SYMBOL OF THE CHAKRI DYNASTY, ROYAL HOUSE OF THAILAND. IT FEATURES THE TRISUL AS WELL AS ANOTHER WEAPON THE SUDARSHANA CHAKRA. 3. PIC A STYLIZED FORM ON TOP OF WAT ARUN MENORAU 4.DRAWING OF THE TRISUL 5.PIC. OFFERINGS TO GUNA DEVI Attached Images

24th July 2012, 04:18 PM	#12
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Barry. Europe does have a historical context for the trident. Neptune/Poseidon carries a Trident and in the UK depictions of Britannia with her trident are pretty much everywhere. The Romans famously loved Gladiators armed with net and trident (retiarius). Across India the Trisul with it's distinctive form shows up all over the place. Remember this: Attached Images

22nd July 2012, 01:13 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A VERY INTERESTNG VIDEO THE MASKS THE DEAMONS WEAR LOOK LIKE THOSE FROM SOUTH AMERICA. WHAT SORT OF POLE ARM IS THAT BEING USED AND ITS LEGNTH VID'S MAKE IT DIFFICULT TO TELL. A VERY WELL DONE VIDEO AND GOOD MUSIC TO GO ALONG WITH IT. IS THAT YOU AS THE NOBLE WARRIOR?

24th July 2012, 01:11 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,024	Well Gentlemen, the thread was re-opened in the hopes that people would concentrate on weapons. Anymore posts of scooters or motorcycles or commentary on Mods vs. Rockers is likely to get it closed again.

25th July 2012, 11:40 PM	#13
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I wonder if the Britannia trident was like many european pole arms based on peasents tools converted to weapons? Perhaps originaly a fish spear? Britannia rules the waves etc.... {hence the barbs to of course.} which also may explain the Roman gladiators using it combined with a net? spiral

26th July 2012, 01:22 AM	#14
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I saw a reference that the Okinawan sai (tjabang, etc) occurred in India and was known as a trisul. I assume this was a miscue on the part of the author. Has anyone seen an Indian sai? (basically, a bar club with the forked guards? Best, F

26th July 2012, 02:54 AM	#15
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	HERE ARE SOME OTHER EXAMPLES OF TRISHUL / TRIDENT FORMS. # 1. CHINESE SWORD BREAKER 2. 3, 4, BALI TRISHUL 5. JAPANESE SWORD CATCHER 6. INDONESIAN TRIDENT BLADE 7. TWO CEYLON SPEAR 8. INDONESIAN TRIDENT. THERE IS A CHINESE POLE ARM OFTEN REFERRED TO AS A TIGER SPEAR THAT IS A TRIDENT FORM BUT I HAVEN'T LOCATED A PICTURE YET. Attached Images

28th July 2012, 12:13 PM	#17
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Hi Gene, Didnt even know they were called 'Retiarius' in truth, but internt search agrees it was a parody of fishing indeed! Weighted nets, tridents etc... cheers, J

28th July 2012, 06:52 PM	#18
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Thinking about it, we've got a number of different influences going on with tridents. These include: --multipronged and barbed fishing spears. This is purely functional, and based on the need to a) hit the fish, and b) keep it on the points. There are a number of forms from all over the world, anywhere people fish with spears. The classical trident actually appears to be a minority shape, actually. --peasant forks, for hay, manure, etc. Again, these are tools, and I think they got weaponized in parts as military forks (although one reference suggests that military forks were also used for doing things like manipulating siege letters). Forks have been militarized elsewhere (China, India, Nepal), as shown above. --tiger forks. These seem to be a primarily Chinese invention, and seem to be based on the same principle as the boar spear (e.g. keep the dangerous critter down at the pointy end of the shaft). --Parrying weapons: as with the boar spear or tiger fork, the general principle is to catch the attacker (sword, spear, staff) and keep it from reaching you, and a fork is one way of catching a weapon. It's not ideal (especially in a small hand weapon), but it can work (especially when there's a long handle between you and the fork). Despite what some Karatekas say, sais reportedly work better on staffs than on swords, unless the swordsman doesn't know much about what he's doing. --Oceanic symbolism: I think this primarily comes from the Mediterranean, where the trident became associated with Neptune and Poseidon. I'm pretty sure that the trident showed how "Brittania rules the waves." --Trinitarian symbolism. In Christianity, we have God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. In Hinduism, we have Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, and so forth. Three is once of those highly symbolic numbers, which is why (I think) trisuls and tridents get used around temples quite a lot, especially in India and China. Interesting that in Christianity, the trident seems to be more the devil's fork than something associated with, say, monasteries. So is it right to consider all tridents to be equal? I'm not sure. Fun topic though. Best, F