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Old 10th March 2017, 08:18 PM   #1
francantolin
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Default Shin Gunto 95-98 real ? kanjis translations on blade welcomed

Hello everybody,
I post some pictures of a japanese gunto,
it seems a real one but not sure because there is a lot of ''good'' replicas...

The seller sold it for not much money:
1. he was not sure 100% if real ( hum...)
2. The blade is not sharp, unforged and with little rust.

All pieces ( tsuba...) have the same stamps: 20 ,
the habaki is not marked ( good ! )
the blade is not sharped and seems classic industrial WWII japanese blade
for officer.

Maybe anybody can read and translate the kanjis on the tang.
there is another 2 signs on the scabbard ( cf pictures ).
( inside the scabbard ''classic'' wooden structure ).

Thank you,
I tried to do my best with the pictures but !...
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Old 10th March 2017, 08:20 PM   #2
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pictures...
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Old 10th March 2017, 09:53 PM   #3
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another glyphe:
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Old 10th March 2017, 10:32 PM   #4
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An unsharpened blade points almost certainly to a fake/repro.

The kanji also look very strange and un-Japanese.
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Old 10th March 2017, 10:40 PM   #5
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I respectfully disagree. Looks totally correct for a Showa era (so dated) shingunto. I think is reads Kanenori as the maker.

Rich

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Japanese Sword Guide
http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/nihonto.htm
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Old 10th March 2017, 10:59 PM   #6
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Hello, thank you, I ll try to do pictures of better quality for the kanjis/signature on the tang. I read that officier gunto sword where sometimes unsharpened , more representation sword rather than made for war...
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Old 11th March 2017, 04:46 AM   #7
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You might be right, but I have never found an unsharpened gunto blade.

I wonder if I also see a fuzzy seki stamp on the upper right of the tang. If so, this would certainly not be a fake but a true gunto.

Can't tell by the pictures but it would be great if this were gendai, although the seki stamp makes this unlikely.
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Old 11th March 2017, 05:46 AM   #8
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Hello, thank you,
Yes, a friend told me the small stamp is for seki / showa period
( why I thought and see more an ''industrial'' blade ).
I^ll ( try) to post better quality pictures.
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Old 11th March 2017, 08:41 AM   #9
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Better pictures !
Holy daylight !!
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Old 12th March 2017, 09:02 AM   #10
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No japanese specialist or WWII fanatic ?

I put the mei on right side !
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Old 12th March 2017, 09:16 AM   #11
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Rich is right about your shin gunto.
It is authentic.
The sowrd smith signature is Kanenori 兼則
Date inscription is Showa 18 years August (1943), with a Nagoya arsenal stamp.
Cheers
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Old 12th March 2017, 11:41 AM   #12
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That is the date side. Showa ....... The makers mei is the two Kanji side. Also the stamp is a Nagoya Arsenal acceptance stamp, not a Seki or Showa stamp.
Kanenori is a known smith. Here is an example of his signature (Mei) and notice it also has the Nagoya arsenal mark.

http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/oshigata/kanenori.jpg

Hope this helps.

Rich
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Japanese Sword Guide
http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/nihonto.htm

Last edited by Rich : 12th March 2017 at 12:36 PM. Reason: add
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Old 12th March 2017, 01:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by francantolin
No japanese specialist or WWII fanatic ?

I believe that is exactly what you are getting with Rich's comments.
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Old 12th March 2017, 06:15 PM   #14
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Yes, Thanks a lot for precious informations about Kanenori and the Mei !!

I have a last question because I'm not a specialist:

I heard about industrial or semi industrial blade during this period,
I think this one is a semi industrial,
have you an idea what was the work of the blacksmith ?
just inspecting the blade ? Polishing ?

( I don't think it is a forged Gendai blade , I see no hamon )


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Old 12th March 2017, 07:20 PM   #15
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A further superfluous information from "Military swords of Japan (1868-1945)" by Fuller and Gregory.
The explanation about figure vi reads: "Na or mei stamp. Very small and easily overlooked, this is probably a general inspection or acceptance stamp - as well as a Nagoya Arsenal firearms control stamp. Fairly common"
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Old 12th March 2017, 07:25 PM   #16
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Not sure what you mean by "industrial or semi-industrial". With the exception of the "top end" gendai smiths, most other Showa era blades (whether hand forged or not) were made in factory settings using production line methods (smith forges blade, someone else polishes it, yet others mount it, etc.).
IMHO, Kanenori falls into the latter catagory - probably hand forged, but not of tamehagane, and then passed on for polishing,mounting.

Here's a page that may be of help.

http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/showato.htm

Rich
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Old 12th March 2017, 09:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariusgmioc
An unsharpened blade points almost certainly to a fake/repro.

The kanji also look very strange and un-Japanese.


I also have great difficulty with the kanji on this sword...
I really can not make anything out of it.
They could be chinese or even korean in my opinion.

But hey, that is probably due to my lack of knowledge of the japanese language.


Rich : arigatou gozaimasu
Francantolin : omedetou !
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Old 12th March 2017, 10:54 PM   #18
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Dr. Stein is correct. this is a Japanese gunto made in August 1943 by a cutlerer named Kanenori. He was a an established producer of military swords. This sword is a wirthy example of wartime swords. The point may have been abused, but overall the the condition is not bad. Post thsi sword on the Niponto Message board anf you will get a fuller account.
Peter
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Old 12th March 2017, 11:21 PM   #19
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Thank's for the congratulations !... ))

Yes not sure, that's why I didn't pay it much money,
if it's a fake, it's a really nice one, all details seems ok !
( I think in auctions sometimes they will sell fakes for true ones !)

have you pictures of korean copy for compare?
It can't be a chines fake, they are to basics.
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Old 12th March 2017, 11:25 PM   #20
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I think our colleague meant Nihonto Message Board...

... and here is the link:

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/

But please let us know what you find out!

Good luck!

Marius

PS: I'm still pretty sure it's fake.
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Old 13th March 2017, 12:09 AM   #21
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It was an answer and question to Asomotif, I haven't seen the message of Peter before !, Thank you Peter !! I will post it on the Nihonto forum. ( didn't know before ans seems really interesting !!) U will tell you what will Come out...
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Old 13th March 2017, 04:56 PM   #22
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Yes !!!
Real one !
dated August 1944,
Kanenori
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Old 13th March 2017, 06:02 PM   #23
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Congratulations!

This is a time when I'm happy to be wrong.

Last edited by mariusgmioc : 13th March 2017 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 13th March 2017, 07:55 PM   #24
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Me too !
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