Unearth this wierd thing at a thrift Store

not2sharp · 23rd November 2008, 08:38 PM

I found this thing at a local thrift store and figured it odd enough to make a worthwhile conversation piece. What struck me when I first saw it, that this was clearly too crude for any Western flea market. It looks more like the work of someone who put an extrodinary amount of effort into making it without the benefit of the smallest morsel of talent, or skill, or tools. None-the-less, it has some character:
1) The brass is weakly magnetic
2) it has a vaguely kastane-like handle, but with the blade curving in the wrong direction
3) What is that star and ring/sickle motife?
4) The blade apppears to have broken and repaired.

The whole is very rough throughout; there is no edge or bevel of any kind. If it were some kind of tacky wall hanging, why would there be a sheath? If intended for the performing arts it would have been a painful 2-1/2 lbs lump of metal.

Has anyone seen anything like this before?

BTW, the OAL = 32 inches

n2s

RhysMichael · 23rd November 2008, 08:38 PM

That is a belly dancers kastane. I have seen several of them dance with it but I cannot comment on the history behind it but I have never seen a historic link between Singhalese weapons and belly dancing.

Norman McCormick · 23rd November 2008, 08:48 PM

Hi,
Belly Dancing sword, the heavier weight is to ensure that it is less likely to fall/slip when balanced on the head etc. All enquiries as to how I know this will be sidestepped and parried.

Regards,
Norman.

not2sharp · 23rd November 2008, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhysMichael

That is a belly dancers kastane. I have seen several of them dance with it but I cannot comment on the history behind it

That is certainly worth a picture.

How about the symbol on the blade? It looks a national emblem.

n2s

RhysMichael · 23rd November 2008, 08:56 PM

I seem to recall in an old thread that Jim said that the term 'kastane' derives from the Portuguese term for a decorative walking stick. I hope he sees this thread so we can get his input on these

katana · 23rd November 2008, 10:44 PM

Hi not2sharp

,
just in case you want to practice your 'moves'.....

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PgxF08p7fi4

Previous thread....
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5130

Kind regards David

not2sharp · 24th November 2008, 03:57 AM

This looks pretty close the the sword we're discussing.

http://isisexchange.com/beautiful-go...rd-p-1394.html

The star and cresent truns out to be from an Egyptian flag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:F...th_century.svg

And just in case we wanted to know.

Link:
http://reviews.ebay.com/Choosing-and...:-1:LISTINGS:3

I quote:
"How do I choose my belly dancing sword?
Choose a curved blade sword or scimitar with a smooth blade and without an edge; the edge should be flat. Avoid swords with large "handguards" on the handle, such as fencing-style swords with handguards off to the side, as these will throw the balance off. Many misunderstand "balanced" to mean that the sword should balance in the middle of the blade. The balance of a belly dance sword refers to how straight it stands on edge and can be seen by the angle of the blade to the floor when balanced on its center of gravity.

Because the handle is heavier than the blade, the center of lengthwise balance of a belly dance sword usually closer to the handle than the middle of the blade. When balanced on your head, a well balanced sword should lay on the inner curved edge with the blade perfectly perpendicular to the floor. The blade should not be leaning toward the front or back. Sometimes a sword that is out of balance and leans to the front or back can be re-balanced by twisting the handle.

Do not use a battle sword for belly dancing. They are not balanced correctly and having an edge will be extremely difficult to dance with. Some swords are heavier than others and it will take some conditioning to get used to the weight. Dance until your scalp goes numb, then practice other moves!"

Numb ....nope not going there.

n2s

Jim McDougall · 24th November 2008, 04:48 AM

OH NOOOOOO!!! Not the belly dancing sword thing again

What memories does this bring,

Rhys Michael, if memory serves from research some time ago, the word is suggested to possibly derive from the Portuguese 'castao' which I belive is correct, referring to a decorated walking stick. I'll have to check more in notes, and I think Fernando may have qualified or corrected that term.

In any case, this decorative swordlike item really has nothing to do with the true kastane from Sinhala, which is in no way associated with the 'belly dancing' performance. It seems other theatrical interpretations of swords used in these performances simulate loosely shamshirs to fantasy scimitars as well, and who can forget that 'Prince' video "Seven" !!

Uh, colorful thread though!!

All the best,
Jim

Mark · 24th November 2008, 08:10 PM

Weird that the handle is backwards. I would have said someone fixed it wrong, until I saw not2sharp's pic of the same configuration. Maybe its a balance thing.

Atlantia · 25th November 2008, 04:51 PM

LOL, I have no problem with a long discussion on this subject! ;-)

Jim McDougall · 25th November 2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by not2sharp

This looks pretty close the the sword we're discussing.

The star and cresent truns out to be from an Egyptian flag.

n2s

The 'Al Yildiz' (=moon star) was actually the device used on the Ottoman flag in the 19th century, and did of course fly over Egypt in those times. The modern Egyptian flag is multistriped, with Eagle of Saladin on white center stripe . The Turkish flag still carries the Al Yildiz.

Not really important on this 'item'

but placed it anyway.....back to the dancing girls

All best regards,
Jim

23rd November 2008, 08:38 PM	#1
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	Unearth this wierd thing at a thrift Store I found this thing at a local thrift store and figured it odd enough to make a worthwhile conversation piece. What struck me when I first saw it, that this was clearly too crude for any Western flea market. It looks more like the work of someone who put an extrodinary amount of effort into making it without the benefit of the smallest morsel of talent, or skill, or tools. None-the-less, it has some character: 1) The brass is weakly magnetic 2) it has a vaguely kastane-like handle, but with the blade curving in the wrong direction 3) What is that star and ring/sickle motife? 4) The blade apppears to have broken and repaired. The whole is very rough throughout; there is no edge or bevel of any kind. If it were some kind of tacky wall hanging, why would there be a sheath? If intended for the performing arts it would have been a painful 2-1/2 lbs lump of metal. Has anyone seen anything like this before? BTW, the OAL = 32 inches n2s Attached Images

23rd November 2008, 08:38 PM	#2
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	That is a belly dancers kastane. I have seen several of them dance with it but I cannot comment on the history behind it but I have never seen a historic link between Singhalese weapons and belly dancing. Attached Images Last edited by RhysMichael; 23rd November 2008 at 08:50 PM.

23rd November 2008, 10:44 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi not2sharp , just in case you want to practice your 'moves'..... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PgxF08p7fi4 Previous thread.... http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5130 Kind regards David Last edited by katana; 24th November 2008 at 12:08 PM.

24th November 2008, 03:57 AM	#7
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	This looks pretty close the the sword we're discussing. http://isisexchange.com/beautiful-go...rd-p-1394.html The star and cresent truns out to be from an Egyptian flag. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:F...th_century.svg And just in case we wanted to know. Link: http://reviews.ebay.com/Choosing-and...:-1:LISTINGS:3 I quote: "How do I choose my belly dancing sword? Choose a curved blade sword or scimitar with a smooth blade and without an edge; the edge should be flat. Avoid swords with large "handguards" on the handle, such as fencing-style swords with handguards off to the side, as these will throw the balance off. Many misunderstand "balanced" to mean that the sword should balance in the middle of the blade. The balance of a belly dance sword refers to how straight it stands on edge and can be seen by the angle of the blade to the floor when balanced on its center of gravity. Because the handle is heavier than the blade, the center of lengthwise balance of a belly dance sword usually closer to the handle than the middle of the blade. When balanced on your head, a well balanced sword should lay on the inner curved edge with the blade perfectly perpendicular to the floor. The blade should not be leaning toward the front or back. Sometimes a sword that is out of balance and leans to the front or back can be re-balanced by twisting the handle. Do not use a battle sword for belly dancing. They are not balanced correctly and having an edge will be extremely difficult to dance with. Some swords are heavier than others and it will take some conditioning to get used to the weight. Dance until your scalp goes numb, then practice other moves!" Numb ....nope not going there. n2s Last edited by not2sharp; 24th November 2008 at 04:48 AM.

23rd November 2008, 08:48 PM	#3
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,576	Hi, Belly Dancing sword, the heavier weight is to ensure that it is less likely to fall/slip when balanced on the head etc. All enquiries as to how I know this will be sidestepped and parried. Regards, Norman.

23rd November 2008, 08:56 PM	#5
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	I seem to recall in an old thread that Jim said that the term 'kastane' derives from the Portuguese term for a decorative walking stick. I hope he sees this thread so we can get his input on these

24th November 2008, 04:48 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,771	OH NOOOOOO!!! Not the belly dancing sword thing again What memories does this bring, Rhys Michael, if memory serves from research some time ago, the word is suggested to possibly derive from the Portuguese 'castao' which I belive is correct, referring to a decorated walking stick. I'll have to check more in notes, and I think Fernando may have qualified or corrected that term. In any case, this decorative swordlike item really has nothing to do with the true kastane from Sinhala, which is in no way associated with the 'belly dancing' performance. It seems other theatrical interpretations of swords used in these performances simulate loosely shamshirs to fantasy scimitars as well, and who can forget that 'Prince' video "Seven" !! Uh, colorful thread though!! All the best, Jim

24th November 2008, 08:10 PM	#9
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Weird that the handle is backwards. I would have said someone fixed it wrong, until I saw not2sharp's pic of the same configuration. Maybe its a balance thing.

25th November 2008, 04:51 PM	#10
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	LOL, I have no problem with a long discussion on this subject! ;-)