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Old 15th February 2021, 07:06 PM   #31
Rick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interested Party
Sorry for the bad picture. I had lighting issues and was more interested in presenting the text. When I looked at the originals with a jeweler's loop 526 appeared to have a Indonesian or Sumatran style pamor. 528 had a cloudy line down the longitudinal center of the blade with a light towards the cutting edge and a dark side towards the spine. I can't tell if it is a lamination mark or a differential temper.

Thank you all for explaining the ancestry of these weapons. Am I correct in assuming that they occupied similar places in the relative martial traditions as heavy choppers? I would imagine that given proximity these are cultures that had some contact with each other. I have been noticing that posted examples have very little edge damage. Does this mean that there was little blade to blade contact in this martial arts system, i.e. no or few parries, or are surviving examples ones that did not see use?


The small panabas pictured here has quite a bit of edge damage and a bullet wound to boot.
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Old 15th February 2021, 07:59 PM   #32
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Here are four of my favorite panabas,(panabi ?).
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Old 15th February 2021, 09:15 PM   #33
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Hello IP,

Quote:
Sorry for the bad picture. I had lighting issues and was more interested in presenting the text. When I looked at the originals with a jeweler's loop 526 appeared to have a Indonesian or Sumatran style pamor. 528 had a cloudy line down the longitudinal center of the blade with a light towards the cutting edge and a dark side towards the spine. I can't tell if it is a lamination mark or a differential temper.

Figs. 525 and 526 as well as my example from post #26 are typical blades from SE Sulawesi. The steel tends to be of good quality and the crafted pamor may be basic, sometimes quite blotchy laminations to twistcore or other exquisite pattern welding. Due to the long hilt, the not very heavy blades are quite agile (at least compared to the pade and even belida blades which tend to be heavier).

Those axe-like blades from Solor/Adonara seem to be quite plain and probably locally crafted from imported steel.


Quote:
Thank you all for explaining the ancestry of these weapons. Am I correct in assuming that they occupied similar places in the relative martial traditions as heavy choppers? I would imagine that given proximity these are cultures that had some contact with each other.

Don't underestimate the tropical distances though; some cultures were much more landlocked than others. There was an extensive trade network operated by seafaring cultures for times pretty much immemorial. OTOH, many local peoples traveled rarely if ever.


Quote:
I have been noticing that posted examples have very little edge damage. Does this mean that there was little blade to blade contact in this martial arts system, i.e. no or few parries, or are surviving examples ones that did not see use?

Many of the groups are so remote/small/etc. that hardly anything is known about their genuine MAs in the ol' days. Moreover, we need to be extremely careful with any generalisations, especially considering the extreme diversity.

However, it seems to be true that direct blade to blade contact is usually much more avoided than in medieval and later Europe; binding is not a common strategy.

Edge damage is certainly not rare though with many old blades; however, the edges are usually keen and well maintained during active service. You usually see the effects of constant sharpening, etc. At some point, old blades get either worn down and recycled or retired into more ceremonial usage. TLC over extended periods tends to obscure signs of prior use.

Regards,
Kai
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Old 15th February 2021, 10:06 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drac2k
Here are four of my favorite panabas,(panabi ?).


Drac2k, gorgeous Panabasí. First one Iíve seen with a centipede / millipede.
Thanks for sharing.
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Old 15th February 2021, 11:24 PM   #35
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Thank you Kino; I posted it earlier under the title of "Unusual Panabas," which has detailed pictures if you care for a closer look.
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Old 16th February 2021, 12:48 AM   #36
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Thanks for the samples everyone- just caught up with all the posts now. I'm really interested regarding panabas varieties because it's my personal theory that each panabas type is suited for a specific purpose- like there are panabas that are hybrid (all-rounder), fighting-only, and ceremony-only. But so far all the panabas in this thread look potent!
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Old 16th February 2021, 12:53 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
Hi Jose,

Nice blade with carving on the end. This is now the third or fourth one of these I have seen, so yours is not alone. Any thoughts about the significance of this style variant?

Ian.


Not as sure but my thoughts are that this belongs not to a datu but to a higher ranking person within a datu's retinue. Thus the reason for the carved end, copper bands, and silver strip on the hilt.

I also wonder if this is a form of fighting panabas for a high ranking warrior under the same datu.
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Old 16th February 2021, 01:04 AM   #38
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Also Drack2, since the first time you posted your beautiful panabas (which one day you will donate to me, right? ) I found out that the centipede motif is sign of dangerous power and in tattoo form or engraved empowers the person or weapon with it.
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Old 16th February 2021, 03:44 AM   #39
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Okay, it's on the bucklist; now I just have to figure out how I'm going to tell my wife that I will be getting a centipede tattoo to go with my panabas.
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Old 16th February 2021, 10:36 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interested Party
I have been noticing that posted examples have very little edge damage. Does this mean that there was little blade to blade contact in this martial arts system, i.e. no or few parries, or are surviving examples ones that did not see use?


Hello IP,

The one on the blue background I've shown in post #16 has a lot of nicks at the edge.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 16th February 2021, 10:40 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drac2k
Here are four of my favorite panabas,(panabi ?).


Hello Drac2k,

Stunning panabas, the one with the centipede!

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 16th February 2021, 03:24 PM   #42
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Thank you Sajen as I like both of yours as well, especially the shorter one; I looked closely at your panabas in a previous post of yours, and the designs with the segmented body and a stylized mouth also reminded me of a centipede. What do you think?
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Old 17th February 2021, 08:17 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drac2k
Thank you Sajen as I like both of yours as well, especially the shorter one; I looked closely at your panabas in a previous post of yours, and the designs with the segmented body and a stylized mouth also reminded me of a centipede. What do you think?


Hello Drac2k,

Never thought in this direction but with some imagination this could be indeed a stylized centipede.
What think other members?

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 17th February 2021, 10:17 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drac2k
I looked closely at your panabas in a previous post of yours, and the designs with the segmented body and a stylized mouth also reminded me of a centipede.


I too hadn't thought of that, although I have never seen any research of how Maguindanao and Maranao okir would be used for making a centipede. I do think it is a possibility. Among the Igorots like the Kalinga, Tinguian, and possibly the Bontoc, even half a stylized geometric centipede still represents a centipede and it's potent power.
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Old 18th February 2021, 09:31 AM   #45
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Another example more ...
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Old 18th February 2021, 06:38 PM   #46
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Default Panabi

Decided to a jump in on this and add to the reference photos.
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Old 19th February 2021, 10:25 PM   #47
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Hi All,

Here are my two. The haft on the Padsumbalin appears to have been taken from a hatchet. There is a small, round, copper token (stamped 343) attached to the haft. A former item from military stores that found a home in civilian life perhaps? The blade is a bit loose in the haft (especially in winter) and it may have had an additional steel ferrule at the very top.

Sincerely,
RobT
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