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Old 14th March 2013, 10:52 PM   #1
RonHen
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Default Chakram for discussion

Hello,

Below is a recent purchase (fagan arms) of a Sikh Chakram. 9 3/8 diameter with rounded inner edge and exterior cutting edge. The chakram is stamped with the "Sikh tree mark"


I am familiar with the sikh religion, but I am unfamiler with the "Sikh tree marking". Can someone explain this to me? Are there other examples of this mark on different weapons?

Could this be instead the symbol of the Sikh Nihang, who wear the Aad Chand symbol on their turbans? and who are well known to carry chakrams Also any thoughts on the age of this chakram?
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Last edited by RonHen : 14th March 2013 at 11:31 PM. Reason: Additional info
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Old 15th March 2013, 04:49 AM   #2
laEspadaAncha
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Remind me never to play a round of frisbee golf with you.


Nice piece. I'll be looking forward to reading more, eh, constructive replies in response to your question...
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Old 19th March 2013, 04:18 PM   #3
fernando
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A pity that no one has yet commented on this one.
I too would like to hear about the Sikh tree marking !
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Old 21st March 2013, 05:03 PM   #4
RonHen
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Thank you Fernando, I am Still researching the topic. I still have yet to determine if calling the stamp "a Sikh tree mark" has validity, but I was able to tie the significance of trees in the Sikh religion.

I have learned that as in Hinduism and Buddhism, Sikhism does have trees with religious significance. There are several trees, but the one tree that appears the most is the Beri(Zizyphus jujuba) tree. A number of shrines were built around these trees with connections to Sikh Gurus and others within the religion. On the banks of the river Bein, Guru Nanak planted a beri tree and Guru Gobind singh stayed under a beri tree in Seeloana, Ludhiana. While I was in India last month, I visited the Golden Temple in Amritsar and the beri tree, in which it is said that Baba Buddha used to sit while the excavations to build the sacred pool were taking place. A Beri named Dukh Bhanjani Ber Sahib is another well known tree at at the golden temple. This tree is associated with the story of Bibi Rajani who had a leper husband that was cured by while bathing next to the tree. It was this that caused Guru Ram Das to develop the reservoir into a proper bathing tank and name that tree. Image of tree below.

Figure .176 below shows a similar Chakram in Edged Weapons by Wilkinson. Wilkinson calls the marking a simple decoration. This may very well be the case. Hopefully someone can add some more insight.

Kind regards

Ron
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Old 21st March 2013, 08:38 PM   #5
DaveA
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Talking Chakrum

I've been working hard all day and my brain is now mushy. That means it is time to go out on a limb or too. Feel free to saw it off behind me

I will hazard a guess on the age of this item. Although it might be newer, it is likely early to mid 1800's. After the Sikh wars and mutiny of 1857, the British ordered many of their weapons destroyed and used for scrap metal. Chakram are hard to find so we can surmise that there has not been a thriving trade for them since that time. That's just probability talking.

It is also worth considering that it might not be a Sikh weapon (although that is most likely). Sikhs are not the only ones who used Chakram. Others have used torus type weapons:
Aboriginal and other tribes of Central India
the people of the Andaman islands
the Mongol cavalry
also reportedly found in Tibet and the Indonesian Archipelago.



Very nice item in any event. Writing as both a Frisbee aficionado and one who appreciates the finer aspects of aerodynamics engineering, the chakram is a marvel and has always been one of my favorites.

Best,

Dave A.
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Old 21st March 2013, 09:00 PM   #6
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Dave,

Going off of other examples I have seen, I was putting the age somewhere around when you suggested, but as you know dating such items can be problematic.

Having been unable to find a concrete link between the marking and Sikhism yet, I will do some reseach in other areas. You have given some great examples to explore. There seems to be very little info and on these weapons, it will take some digging.

Ron
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Old 21st March 2013, 09:16 PM   #7
fernando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonHen
... I still have yet to determine if calling the stamp "a Sikh tree mark" has validity... Wilkinson calls the marking a simple decoration. This may very well be the case. ...

Whether this thing of the Sikh tree mark is a fantasy i ignore, but it is not uncommon to see this allusion in various sources out there. In any case, this mark appears in several examples, apparently always 'stamped' in three equally divided places of the quoid. There must be an explanation for the origin of this habit, even if not a preponderant one.
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