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8th August 2016, 04:21 PM | #1 | |
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8th August 2016, 04:24 PM | #2 | |
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Should have chronological and geographical frames |
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8th August 2016, 04:29 PM | #3 |
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Can somebody please post some photos of Afghan and Bukahara Shashkas?!
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9th August 2016, 08:37 AM | #4 | |
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9th August 2016, 08:45 AM | #5 | |
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9th August 2016, 10:18 AM | #6 | |
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As I am just a novice in the field, I didn't even know these varieties existed! And they look quite Shashkas to me! Whether they culturally belong to the Caucasian family or not, I believe they qualify for being called Shashkas. Even if they appeared relatively recently as immitations of the Russian army issued Shashkas, I believe they still need consideration. After all that's how many other weapons appeared, by first copying, then adapting a weapon from a neighbouring nation, from a conquering or even from a conquered army. Very interesting thread! |
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9th August 2016, 10:23 AM | #7 | |
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I don't see any... |
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9th August 2016, 10:38 AM | #8 | |
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9th August 2016, 10:57 AM | #9 | |
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I show the most well-known examples: Last edited by mahratt; 9th August 2016 at 11:10 AM. |
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9th August 2016, 11:03 AM | #10 |
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Biryuza jewelry in a special technique is only found on the "Bukhara" shashkas. On the Afghan shashkas biryuza - not.
Even if there are shashkas of "Bukhara" with "bolster", it - indistinct (small), when compared with the Afghan shashkas. "Bukhara" shashka: |
9th August 2016, 12:07 PM | #11 |
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Marius,
There is no doubt that all of them belong to the family of guardless sabers. Just like parangs, some Indian examples , daabs etc. But we are not talking about construction her. There were multiple examples of parallel development, and we need to differentiate between them. Look at Sardinian Leppa or Beduin saber: almost identical blade,- and handle-wise to the Bukharan examples. And having nothing in common with them ethnically and culturally. Circassian ( and, subsequently, pan-Caucasian) shashka is an entity Sui Generis. It served as an inspiration for Russian military sabers and, through them, provided modifying influence upon Afghani military sabers . This is why they are pseudo-shashkas. Bukharan examples bear significant similarity to real shashkas, but developed totally independently and from a different progenitor. One cannot lump together totally independent weapons simply by the criterion of their external appearance. Extending such an approach ad absurdum, we can immensely simplify our lives by calling all long-bladed weapons just swords. This would be fine for some Joe Shmo, but totally unacceptable for the students of weapons. Dolphins, antelopes, humans and rats are all mammals, aren't they? :-))) |
9th August 2016, 12:19 PM | #12 |
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I am confused: not so long ago Mahratt adamantly insisted that a painting by the Russian artist Vereshchagin showing a Bukharan guardless saber with 3 rivets was absolutely correct. Now he specifically differentiates Afghani and Bukharan examples according to the number of rivets, with 3 on Afghani and 5 on Bukharan ( exactly what I was saying according to Flindt and personal experience, and what he so vehemently objected to).
Does he have some new data, or did he read some old ones? Or was it just argument for the sake of the argument? |
9th August 2016, 12:38 PM | #13 | |||||
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They did not know that Ariel does not think so |
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8th August 2016, 04:49 PM | #14 | |
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Exactly true! Otherwise we may start discussing Scottish Sgian Dubh bringing Caucasian Kindjals, Moroccan Genoui and some Congo daggers as examples. The blades are straight, so what more do we need?:-) |
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8th August 2016, 04:54 PM | #15 |
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caucasus mountains range thru Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Russia, and Iran.
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12th October 2017, 11:03 PM | #16 | |
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8th December 2017, 08:37 PM | #17 | |
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9th December 2017, 02:37 PM | #18 |
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Let me and myself get involved in the topic.The word shashka is derived from Kabardino Circassian sa`sh ho which means a long knife.For homeland is considered the Caucasus region.The most extensive studies on the subject conducted by Russian researchers.Most earliest reference to such use blades are excavations of graves from the 13th century in the Caucasus region.It is also interesting to note that such a form of long edged weapon are used at all the neighboring regions of the Caucasus (Including Georgia).During the Caucasian wars,the cossacks have find exclusive advantage of light and convenient blade used by local peoples.Begins phasing using the shashka and kinjals in Cossack troops.The command of the Russian Imperial Army began to deploy this type of weapon in the Cossack regiments.Eventually, thanks to the Russians this weapon becomes extremely popular in the world.
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8th August 2016, 04:59 PM | #19 | |
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Now compare Russian (army), Caucasus and Afghan shashkas. Someone sees a copy? Last edited by Ian; 8th August 2016 at 11:15 PM. Reason: Removal of personal invective |
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