Large Bali or Lombok keris for comment

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo JeffS!

To me, it's a Manjeuseup Leres (sunbird, straight blade), following a pakem that goes back to at least 15thC.
This may be of interest:
- if the blade length >42cm., it's a sandang walikat (worn over the shoulderblade)
- if the diameter of the tang base >0.72cm., it's a tjorok (doubles as emergency sword)

Best,

[Gustav]

A beautiful, well made blade. As Amuk pointed out, it follows an archaic form.
You had luck noticing (or being noticed about it) early, that was a good catch.

[JeffS]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo JeffS!
To me, it's a Manjeuseup Leres (sunbird, straight blade), following a pakem that goes back to at least 15thC.
This may be of interest:
- if the blade length >42cm., it's a sandang walikat (worn over the shoulderblade)
- if the diameter of the tang base >0.72cm., it's a tjorok (doubles as emergency sword)

Originally Posted by Gustav

A beautiful, well made blade. As Amuk pointed out, it follows an archaic form.
You had luck noticing (or being noticed about it) early, that was a good catch.

Thank you for the information. I am always grateful of the depth of knowlege so freely shared here. It is a lot of fun to post pieces and to see what fascinating history, hidden details, and even controversy that may arise. I suppose when asking the name of dhapur I'm really hoping to learn if it is a recognized and interesting dhapur. An archaic lineage to 15thC or more certainly qualifies. Definitely a shoulder blade, I will measure the pesi base when it arrives. I would be interested to understand if there are specific features that signal the pakem or if it is more how the ensemble of features come together. Absence of sekar kakang and related bits as well as absent sogokan emphasizes the prominent tikel alis and whatever the groove above the gandik outside of the tikel alis is called. As someone who loves sunbirds, I wonder how they came to be included in the dhapur name. Also, is there a clear indication if Balinese or from Lombok? I suppose the question of pamor or lack thereof will have to wait until I have it in hand.

[Rick]

Interesting little depression on the handle; for the thumb perhaps?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...1&d=1681983470

[David]

Hi Jeff. Nice Bali keris. I like it! Could it be Lombok? Sure. But with a keris like this i am not sure if we can ever really be sure and i think it could just as likely be Bali as well. Lombok was under Balinese control for some time and i believe it is often difficult to tell if a keris blade was actually made in one place or another. Sometimes dress might be a clue, but then it is only a clue as to where the blade ended up, not necessarily where it originated. I don't see anything that dictates this sheath is specifically Lombok rather than Balinese. This is a variation of cenangan hilt that has these finger grooves in them and i believe i have seen examples similar to this that have been identified as Lombok.
While i am not aware of the name that Amuk Murugal has given for this dhapur anything is possible. As you probably know, names can be very localized things and vary from place to place.
Pakem is a Javanese word and i am not aware of there being a Balinese Pakem for the dhapur of Balinese blades from the specific kingdoms. Are there written pakem from Bali. If there are perhaps Amuk can point us to where they can be found.
I have no idea what Amuk means by the following:if the blade length >42cm., it's a sandang walikat (worn over the shoulderblade) since "sandang walikat" is a form of sheath (not the kind yours is) and has nothing to do with the length or type of blade.
I am likewise confused by his use of the word " tjorok" and what he means by an "emergency sword". In searches i have seen to word attached to a few of keris for sale online, but they have all been Javanese keris so i don't know if this is a Javanese word or not or what the diameter of the pesi has to do with this designation. Perhaps Amuk can enlighten us.
I do have another Bali keris that is pamorless like yours (Rick, you may recognize this old friend ). While the dhapur is somewhat different (unlike yours mine has sogokan, kembang kacang pogok and lambe gajah) this keris does have the same over all profile along the length of the blade that bellies out slightly in the middle and it has a similar termination at the tip.
I could be wrong, but i suspect that pamorless blades like this may well have been produced more specifically as a fighting blade rather than for status.
Please forgive the low quality quick cellphone photos.

[kai]

Interesting little depression on the handle; for the thumb perhaps?

I don't think so, Rick: While the edges are worn smooth, the surface of that depression is not really smooth. Thus, this looks like an damage to me that happened during the active life of this keris.

Having said this, I'd estimate the fittings to be from the 20th century; the crosspiece might be a tad older than the rest.

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Jeff,

Considering that this is an old Jawa dhapur, I'd posit it's very likely Balinese craftsmanship. It might be crafted on Bali or in the Balinese colonies on Lombok - culturally that would not make any difference.

Keris that we consider specifically originating from Lombok (rather than Bali) are usually keris which appear to be influenced by Balinese style (or Jawa or Bugis) but deviate from the originating culture enough to suspect another (or mixed/fusion) origin. Quite often these exhibit fancy features that pretty much result in them being out of pakem from a traditionalist perspective...

Regards,
Kai

[JeffS]

Originally Posted by kai

I don't think so, Rick: While the edges are worn smooth, the surface of that depression is not really smooth. Thus, this looks like an damage to me that happened during the active life of this keris.

Agreed it appears rough and unfinished. However, being located inline with the blumbangan and the orientation (thumb would be aligned with blade), as well as the thumb-like size and shape, make me wonder if this was a later modification to allow a similar grip as when choked up on the blade (to support thrusting). I am curious how this grip would feel while holding the keris.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by kai

I don't think so, Rick: While the edges are worn smooth, the surface of that depression is not really smooth. Thus, this looks like an damage to me that happened during the active life of this keris.

Having said this, I'd estimate the fittings to be from the 20th century; the crosspiece might be a tad older than the rest.

Regards,
Kai

I don't know, Kai that depression in the handle looks pretty smooth to me, especially looking at the Seller's pictures, I think I must disagree considering the length of the blade.

And Yes, David, I have more than once regretted letting that go.

[David]

Originally Posted by Rick

And Yes, David, I have more than once regretted letting that go.

Sorry to hear you have regrets Rick. Be assured that it is well cared for and in very good company. If you send me a photo i can show it to the keris every now and then so that you are not forgotten.