Blade '' pro Honor et Patria'' Origin ?

francantolin · 7th May 2017, 09:37 PM

Hello everybody,

I just bought in an auction an interesting sword: oriental ( turkish) mounts on an european old (?) straight blade.
Does someone know where it can come from ( Poland ? Romania ?) and date it ?

Thank you

Franco

(Ps: I post it too on the ethnographic forum because of the rest of the sword )

Jim McDougall · 8th May 2017, 02:04 AM

These are not 'Turkish' mounts, but of the popular 'orientalist' fashion of 18th century, and this seems a military pallasche type blade. The Latin is found often on Polish and Hungarian swords of these times. The velveteen scabbard suggests possible honorific pallasche of Eastern Europe or Ukraine? The pommel and grip styling seems almost Tatar, which brings to mind those regions.

francantolin · 8th May 2017, 07:52 AM

Hello Jim,
Thank you !!
Really useful and interesting comment !!

Kind regards

Jim McDougall · 8th May 2017, 01:59 PM

My pleasure, nice sword!!
As well noted on the ethnographic forum by Oliver, this does seem to be a Caucasian piece. The velveteen scabbard sort of set me toward the European angle, but the shapes of those elements in the hilt especially pommel do bring to mind Caucasian possibilities. With that, again the Tatar factor always looms.

NeilUK · 8th May 2017, 05:11 PM

I don't know if this will affect your considerations of this sword but there is a grammatical mistake in the Latin inscription - possibly just a slip by the engraver. It should read: PRO HONORE ET PATRIA. But looks a nice blade otherwise.
Neil

francantolin · 8th May 2017, 08:38 PM

Hello,
I'm not a specialist at all in Latin language,
I found this old army flag of Romania 1860 with Honor & Patria motto,
that's why I thought perhaps a romanian blade model on an ottoman hilt and scabbard ...

Kind Regards

7th May 2017, 09:37 PM	#1
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 818	Blade '' pro Honor et Patria'' Origin ? Hello everybody, I just bought in an auction an interesting sword: oriental ( turkish) mounts on an european old (?) straight blade. Does someone know where it can come from ( Poland ? Romania ?) and date it ? Thank you Franco (Ps: I post it too on the ethnographic forum because of the rest of the sword ) Attached Images

8th May 2017, 08:38 PM	#6
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 818	Hello, I'm not a specialist at all in Latin language, I found this old army flag of Romania 1860 with Honor & Patria motto, that's why I thought perhaps a romanian blade model on an ottoman hilt and scabbard ... Kind Regards Attached Images

8th May 2017, 02:04 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,746	These are not 'Turkish' mounts, but of the popular 'orientalist' fashion of 18th century, and this seems a military pallasche type blade. The Latin is found often on Polish and Hungarian swords of these times. The velveteen scabbard suggests possible honorific pallasche of Eastern Europe or Ukraine? The pommel and grip styling seems almost Tatar, which brings to mind those regions.

8th May 2017, 07:52 AM	#3
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 818	Hello Jim, Thank you !! Really useful and interesting comment !! Kind regards

8th May 2017, 01:59 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,746	My pleasure, nice sword!! As well noted on the ethnographic forum by Oliver, this does seem to be a Caucasian piece. The velveteen scabbard sort of set me toward the European angle, but the shapes of those elements in the hilt especially pommel do bring to mind Caucasian possibilities. With that, again the Tatar factor always looms.

8th May 2017, 05:11 PM	#5
NeilUK Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Scotland Posts: 122	I don't know if this will affect your considerations of this sword but there is a grammatical mistake in the Latin inscription - possibly just a slip by the engraver. It should read: PRO HONORE ET PATRIA. But looks a nice blade otherwise. Neil