a keris for my father

ferrylaki · 12th February 2008, 02:35 AM

My latest keris with nice luk 5, new made handle ( kemuning wood ) , relatively new made warangka ( solo ladrang ) , new made pendok ( copper with gold colour ) , new made mendak...

I'm going to give this keris to my father as a present.
I like to get any opinion regarding this keris.
sorry for the pictures,

FERRY

A. G. Maisey · 12th February 2008, 02:48 AM

You're a good son, Ferry.

A most suitable keris, suitable and nice mid-quality dress without being too ostentatious. Your father will be pleased to wear this keris and will remember who his son is.

You've done well.

ferrylaki · 12th February 2008, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

You're a good son, Ferry.

A most suitable keris, suitable and nice mid-quality dress without being too ostentatious. Your father will be pleased to wear this keris and will remember who his son is.

You've done well.

Thank you Alan,

My father begin to wear javanese beskap to attend a formal wedding ceremonies during his 50 age( a year ago). I guess he start to like my kerises , he took all my kerises a week ago. but most of my kerises uses gayaman warangka so he asked my to make some Ladrang for the beskap.
The reason I pick up the 5 luks keris is for its complete ricikan and nice 5 luks, I think this is a Jogja style keris but I choose a solo warangka for it.
I never knew whether this 5 luks keris is a new made keris or an old one.
I just Like it. The picture doent give much detail, but maybe you something in mind to tell me about the keris? any info would be great. Thank you...

FERRY

asomotif · 12th February 2008, 11:54 AM

Dear Ferry,

Good choice.
5 luk / pendawa lima is my favorite too. A very harmonious keris.

Best regards,
Willem

A. G. Maisey · 12th February 2008, 08:36 PM

Its not a current era keris Ferry. The edges and greneng look like they might have been cleaned up a bit,which is quite acceptable, but it is an older piece.

David · 12th February 2008, 10:31 PM

Nice keris Ferrylaki and a nice gesture. Now i wonder if i shouldn't have had some children when i was younger.

Marcokeris · 14th February 2008, 12:22 PM

Nice keris Ferrylaki.
Could be a keris like your a Pajang keris?

The only thing i don't like is the pendok: (from picture)too much shiny ...but if you like it, of course, it's OK

A. G. Maisey · 14th February 2008, 09:48 PM

Marco, this pendok is a very good quality engraved pendok.

Yes, I agree that it is possibly a little shiny, however, you are looking at this keris if it were a collectable, to be put in a cabinet and looked at in its entirety, Ferry's father will wear this keris as an item of dress, most of the pendok will not be seen because it will be hidden by the setagen, all that will be visible will be the atasan of the wrongko, and the tip of the pendok, we do not want to wear a dirty or tarnished pendok.

This keris is not classifiable as Pajang. It would be safe to classify it from the photo as late Mataram, but in the hand it might be able to be given Koripan, or possibly even Kajoran.

Marcokeris · 16th February 2008, 11:43 AM

Sorry Alan but...Koripan,... Kajoran

A. G. Maisey · 16th February 2008, 01:29 PM

Part of the whole tangguh thing Marco.

Koripan is a smithing village near Klaten, they've produced Mataram style keris since supposedly around 1825.

Kajoran was family with connections to Mataram.

There's really no need to get too involved in this, its sub-classification of a broad general type. Pretty difficult, maybe impossible to do from pics, and even in the hand if you have 6 experts, you'll have 9 opinions.

ferrylaki · 19th February 2008, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Part of the whole tangguh thing Marco.

Koripan is a smithing village near Klaten, they've produced Mataram style keris since supposedly around 1825.

Kajoran was family with connections to Mataram.

There's really no need to get too involved in this, its sub-classification of a broad general type. Pretty difficult, maybe impossible to do from pics, and even in the hand if you have 6 experts, you'll have 9 opinions.

We should not argue about the tangguh or the origin of the keris...like Alan said, we might have many different opinions. a friend of mine said this keris might be made in HB7 era and made in nganto-ento Jogjakarta. Let's just say this keris has mataram style. the appropriate warangka would be brangah Jogja.

A. G. Maisey · 19th February 2008, 01:17 AM

Yes, agreed Ferry. Unless it is a very distinctive blade, something like , say, Sigaluh, it is best not to try to give tangguh on a blade just from photos. You need to hold, touch, and "feel" a blade to give a supportable opinion on most tangguh classifications.

That "supportable opinion" is very, very important. Its no good saying that a blade is such and such a tangguh unless you can give the reasons for your opinion, and those reasons should cover around ten separate indicators.

Any opinion on tangguh without that opinion being supported by solid reasons should be accepted with reservations.

One of, if not the, major problem with tangguh classification is that for a long time now it has been applied to blades for which it was never intended.

Everybody wants their keris to be a recognisable tangguh, and of course salesmen love tangguh because it becomes another sales line.
Apart from which, tangguh is a good excuse for a long discussion.

Tangguh can be fun, but for serious students, it should be taken seriously, which means that when you classify a blade as some tangguh or other, you must give your reasons along with the classification.

ferrylaki · 19th February 2008, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes, agreed Ferry. Unless it is a very distinctive blade, something like , say, Sigaluh, it is best not to try to give tangguh on a blade just from photos. You need to hold, touch, and "feel" a blade to give a supportable opinion on most tangguh classifications.

That "supportable opinion" is very, very important. Its no good saying that a blade is such and such a tangguh unless you can give the reasons for your opinion, and those reasons should cover around ten separate indicators.

Any opinion on tangguh without that opinion being supported by solid reasons should be accepted with reservations.

One of, if not the, major problem with tangguh classification is that for a long time now it has been applied to blades for which it was never intended.

Everybody wants their keris to be a recognisable tangguh, and of course salesmen love tangguh because it becomes another sales line.
Apart from which, tangguh is a good excuse for a long discussion.

Tangguh can be fun, but for serious students, it should be taken seriously, which means that when you classify a blade as some tangguh or other, you must give your reasons along with the classification.

In some cases, a very special keris has " kekancingan" or a letter consist of informations about: the name of the keris/the title of the keris, who made the keris, whom the keris made for, when it was made, etc... but this kind of kekancingan is very very rare. most trustworthy kekancingan could be found with a hight quality keris.
I never see it my self ( the kekancingan ) , how about you?
Alan, could you give us you opinion about kekancingan?

FERRY

A. G. Maisey · 19th February 2008, 02:23 AM

Ferry,one of these certificates is only as good as the person who prepared it.

It is possible to pay certain people to provide a certificate of this type.These people often have titles and reputations that would seem to indicate that any certificate issued by them would be reliable. Regrettably this is not always so.

Other people who do have integrity can also be found who will provide such a certificate.

As far as I can see the same thing has applied for a very long time, so even if the certificate is an old one, it is only as good as the man who prepared it.

ferrylaki · 19th February 2008, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Ferry,one of these certificates is only as good as the person who prepared it.

It is possible to pay certain people to provide a certificate of this type.These people often have titles and reputations that would seem to indicate that any certificate issued by them would be reliable. Regrettably this is not always so.

Other people who do have integrity can also be found who will provide such a certificate.

As far as I can see the same thing has applied for a very long time, so even if the certificate is an old one, it is only as good as the man who prepared it.

Ok, I get the point.
most keris empu didnt write their name on the blade nor the pesi. But once i saw a very special Spear head with the name of the empu written on the pesi using old javanese inscription ( hanacaraka)... just like a signature on a Japanese katana's tang . that was the first time for me to see an inscription an a pesi that mention the name of the empu.

FERRY

A. G. Maisey · 19th February 2008, 03:12 AM

And I'd be very inclined to take that signature with a grain of salt.

Ferry, if you read about "who" made keris in olden times, it was this king, or that king, or some other king. The king made the keris, using the medium of such and such an empu.

What empu would be sufficiently arrogant to affix his own name to anything he made, for his lord, or for anybody else?

The work of individual makers, or schools of makers is recognised by style. It is totally outside the ethics of keris making to put one's own name on something that one has made. Just not on.

ferrylaki · 19th February 2008, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

And I'd be very inclined to take that signature with a grain of salt.

Ferry, if you read about "who" made keris in olden times, it was this king, or that king, or some other king. The king made the keris, using the medium of such and such an empu.

What empu would be sufficiently arrogant to affix his own name to anything he made, for his lord, or for anybody else?

The work of individual makers, or schools of makers is recognised by style. It is totally outside the ethics of keris making to put one's own name on something that one has made. Just not on.

Thanks, I never knew that.
No wonder we cant find any inscription on keris blade nor pesi.

12th February 2008, 02:35 AM	#1
ferrylaki Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 285	a keris for my father My latest keris with nice luk 5, new made handle ( kemuning wood ) , relatively new made warangka ( solo ladrang ) , new made pendok ( copper with gold colour ) , new made mendak... I'm going to give this keris to my father as a present. I like to get any opinion regarding this keris. sorry for the pictures, FERRY Attached Images

12th February 2008, 11:54 AM	#4
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	5 luk Dear Ferry, Good choice. 5 luk / pendawa lima is my favorite too. A very harmonious keris. Best regards, Willem

12th February 2008, 02:48 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,701	You're a good son, Ferry. A most suitable keris, suitable and nice mid-quality dress without being too ostentatious. Your father will be pleased to wear this keris and will remember who his son is. You've done well.

12th February 2008, 08:36 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,701	Its not a current era keris Ferry. The edges and greneng look like they might have been cleaned up a bit,which is quite acceptable, but it is an older piece.

12th February 2008, 10:31 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,026	Nice keris Ferrylaki and a nice gesture. Now i wonder if i shouldn't have had some children when i was younger.

14th February 2008, 12:22 PM	#7
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Nice keris Ferrylaki. Could be a keris like your a Pajang keris? The only thing i don't like is the pendok: (from picture)too much shiny ...but if you like it, of course, it's OK

14th February 2008, 09:48 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,701	Marco, this pendok is a very good quality engraved pendok. Yes, I agree that it is possibly a little shiny, however, you are looking at this keris if it were a collectable, to be put in a cabinet and looked at in its entirety, Ferry's father will wear this keris as an item of dress, most of the pendok will not be seen because it will be hidden by the setagen, all that will be visible will be the atasan of the wrongko, and the tip of the pendok, we do not want to wear a dirty or tarnished pendok. This keris is not classifiable as Pajang. It would be safe to classify it from the photo as late Mataram, but in the hand it might be able to be given Koripan, or possibly even Kajoran.

16th February 2008, 11:43 AM	#9
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Sorry Alan but...Koripan,... Kajoran

16th February 2008, 01:29 PM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,701	Part of the whole tangguh thing Marco. Koripan is a smithing village near Klaten, they've produced Mataram style keris since supposedly around 1825. Kajoran was family with connections to Mataram. There's really no need to get too involved in this, its sub-classification of a broad general type. Pretty difficult, maybe impossible to do from pics, and even in the hand if you have 6 experts, you'll have 9 opinions.

19th February 2008, 01:17 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,701	Yes, agreed Ferry. Unless it is a very distinctive blade, something like , say, Sigaluh, it is best not to try to give tangguh on a blade just from photos. You need to hold, touch, and "feel" a blade to give a supportable opinion on most tangguh classifications. That "supportable opinion" is very, very important. Its no good saying that a blade is such and such a tangguh unless you can give the reasons for your opinion, and those reasons should cover around ten separate indicators. Any opinion on tangguh without that opinion being supported by solid reasons should be accepted with reservations. One of, if not the, major problem with tangguh classification is that for a long time now it has been applied to blades for which it was never intended. Everybody wants their keris to be a recognisable tangguh, and of course salesmen love tangguh because it becomes another sales line. Apart from which, tangguh is a good excuse for a long discussion. Tangguh can be fun, but for serious students, it should be taken seriously, which means that when you classify a blade as some tangguh or other, you must give your reasons along with the classification.

19th February 2008, 02:23 AM	#14
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,701	Ferry,one of these certificates is only as good as the person who prepared it. It is possible to pay certain people to provide a certificate of this type.These people often have titles and reputations that would seem to indicate that any certificate issued by them would be reliable. Regrettably this is not always so. Other people who do have integrity can also be found who will provide such a certificate. As far as I can see the same thing has applied for a very long time, so even if the certificate is an old one, it is only as good as the man who prepared it.

19th February 2008, 03:12 AM	#16
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,701	And I'd be very inclined to take that signature with a grain of salt. Ferry, if you read about "who" made keris in olden times, it was this king, or that king, or some other king. The king made the keris, using the medium of such and such an empu. What empu would be sufficiently arrogant to affix his own name to anything he made, for his lord, or for anybody else? The work of individual makers, or schools of makers is recognised by style. It is totally outside the ethics of keris making to put one's own name on something that one has made. Just not on.