Unknown firearm

PHILGERS · 21st January 2023, 09:24 AM

I need help identifying this weapon. I found it in an old French collection that I just bought. I have no idea about this 21 inch long pistol or rifle. The barrel is in bronze, (diameter 0.47 inches) and looks old. The firing system must be fuse. I think the weapon must be of Asian origin but I have not found any other weapon with a butt of this shape. If someone has an idea ...

Will M · 21st January 2023, 02:17 PM

It appears to be an older decorative piece. No place for a lock so it really cannot fire unless you hold a flame to the pan. The pan suggests flintlock.

David R · 21st January 2023, 08:35 PM

It's a type known as a touch-fire among other names, and they turn up all over the East as a simple low tech shooter. I will stick my neck out and say South East Asia, somewhere under Chinese influence. Nice item, one to enjoy.

JBG163 · 22nd January 2023, 08:07 AM

Chinese or vietnamese is a good guess. With the symbol, french history, and Mother of Pearl inlay, i would go toward Vietnam

ausjulius · 22nd January 2023, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHILGERS

I need help identifying this weapon. I found it in an old French collection that I just bought. I have no idea about this 21 inch long pistol or rifle. The barrel is in bronze, (diameter 0.47 inches) and looks old. The firing system must be fuse. I think the weapon must be of Asian origin but I have not found any other weapon with a butt of this shape. If someone has an idea ...

it is a vietnamese made firearm i belive.

milandro · 22nd January 2023, 12:18 PM

touch-hole guns were primitive guns all over the world and came in all sizes in Asia (but existed in Europe too)

milandro · 22nd January 2023, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHILGERS

I need help identifying this weapon. I found it in an old French collection that I just bought. I have no idea about this 21 inch long pistol or rifle. The barrel is in bronze, (diameter 0.47 inches) and looks old. The firing system must be fuse. I think the weapon must be of Asian origin but I have not found any other weapon with a butt of this shape. If someone has an idea ...

at some point it may have had a simple ignition mechanism such as these Japanese weapons

PHILGERS · 22nd January 2023, 01:16 PM

thank you all for your information. I think the stock heel is ivory

PHILGERS · 23rd January 2023, 01:55 PM

Does anybody have an idea of the era of this gun?

milandro · 25th January 2023, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHILGERS

Does anybody have an idea of the era of this gun?

I am not sure that one can affirm without any doubt that this is an ancient made weapon But hand cannons (which this is) are very old indeed , however their use extends to modern days too

"....Cannons are attested to in India starting from 1366.[33] The Joseon kingdom in Korea acquired knowledge of gunpowder from China by 1372[34] and started producing cannons by 1377.[35] In Southeast Asia Đại Việt soldiers were using hand cannons at the very latest by 1390 when they employed them in killing Champa king Che Bong Nga.[36] Chinese observer recorded the Javanese use of hand cannon for marriage ceremony in 1413 during Zheng He's voyage.[37][38] Japan was already aware of gunpowder warfare due to the Mongol invasions during the 13th century, but did not acquire a cannon until a monk took one back to Japan from China in 1510,[39] and firearms were not produced until 1543, when the Portuguese introduced matchlocks which were known as tanegashima to the Japanese.[40] The art of firing the hand cannon called Ōzutsu (大筒) has remained as a Ko-budō martial arts form.[41][42]..."
So, I would call this a small hand cannon
Some of these, In Japan, are contemporary made. I am not saying that your piece is, but It doesn't apart to be hundreds of years old.
Assuming it is a functional weapon (?) it may be a relatively old weapon or a more modern reproduction.

fernando · 25th January 2023, 06:09 PM

milandro, you know that forum rules are that images ought to be uploaded using forum attachment features. You should save your pictures in your disk and then attach them to threads.

milandro · 25th January 2023, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

milandro, you know that forum rules are that images ought to be uploaded using forum attachment features. You should save your pictures in your disk and then attach them to threads.

sorry, I didn't know that, these pictures aren't mine and since the feature existed I thought it was ok

fernando · 25th January 2023, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milandro

sorry, I didn't know that, these pictures aren't mine and since the feature existed I thought it was ok

Still you know where the pictures were; you may always save them and upload them with forum (manage attachments) features, found hereunder. This way pictures remain permanently in respective threads; will not vanish when host links are broken.

milandro · 25th January 2023, 09:10 PM

Thanks, won't forget it

I managed to retrieve some of the images

So, I would call this a small hand cannon
Some of these, In Japan, are contemporary made. I am not saying that your piece is, but It doesn't apart to be hundreds of years old.
Assuming it is a functional weapon (?) it may be a relatively old weapon or a more modern reproduction.

21st January 2023, 09:24 AM	#1
PHILGERS Member Join Date: Jan 2023 Posts: 3	Unknown firearm I need help identifying this weapon. I found it in an old French collection that I just bought. I have no idea about this 21 inch long pistol or rifle. The barrel is in bronze, (diameter 0.47 inches) and looks old. The firing system must be fuse. I think the weapon must be of Asian origin but I have not found any other weapon with a butt of this shape. If someone has an idea ... Attached Images

22nd January 2023, 12:18 PM	#6
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 419	touch-hole guns were primitive guns all over the world and came in all sizes in Asia (but existed in Europe too) Last edited by milandro; 22nd January 2023 at 12:41 PM.

23rd January 2023, 01:55 PM	#9
PHILGERS Member Join Date: Jan 2023 Posts: 3	Does anybody have an idea of the era of this gun? Last edited by Lee; 24th January 2023 at 08:18 PM.

25th January 2023, 09:10 PM	#14
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 419	Thanks, won't forget it I managed to retrieve some of the images So, I would call this a small hand cannon Some of these, In Japan, are contemporary made. I am not saying that your piece is, but It doesn't apart to be hundreds of years old. Assuming it is a functional weapon (?) it may be a relatively old weapon or a more modern reproduction. Attached Images

21st January 2023, 02:17 PM	#2
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 390	It appears to be an older decorative piece. No place for a lock so it really cannot fire unless you hold a flame to the pan. The pan suggests flintlock.

21st January 2023, 08:35 PM	#3
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,052	It's a type known as a touch-fire among other names, and they turn up all over the East as a simple low tech shooter. I will stick my neck out and say South East Asia, somewhere under Chinese influence. Nice item, one to enjoy.

22nd January 2023, 08:07 AM	#4
JBG163 Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: France Posts: 203	Chinese or vietnamese is a good guess. With the symbol, french history, and Mother of Pearl inlay, i would go toward Vietnam

22nd January 2023, 01:16 PM	#8
PHILGERS Member Join Date: Jan 2023 Posts: 3	thank you all for your information. I think the stock heel is ivory

25th January 2023, 06:09 PM	#11
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,641	milandro, you know that forum rules are that images ought to be uploaded using forum attachment features. You should save your pictures in your disk and then attach them to threads.