Philippine Axe

Tim Simmons · 13th April 2005, 07:01 PM

Frenzy.

These are far from common in the Uk so I was over the moon when I got one some years ago. A lot of you seem to known so much about Philippine arms almost to the name of the village of origin

I was wondering if we could have a teach in.As long as it was not made recently

Your cooperation would be greatly appreciated.Tim PS I love the roll of steel round the haft.

Lew · 13th April 2005, 07:24 PM

Tim

It looks like a Bontoc head hunters to me.

Lew

Ian · 13th April 2005, 07:58 PM

Hi Tim:

Lew is correct, I believe, in stating this axe comes from the Bontoc. I'm not sure whether it is a "head axe," implying a weapon used for beheading a victim, or more of a utility axe or tool. There are apparently distinctions, and one of my dealer acquaintances in Manila noted that the axes with convex edges (as your example has) are tools, while those with concave edges are weapons. I don't know how true this information may be because I have only heard it from a single source (although he is a well informed Filipino with many years of dealing in edged weapons).

Ian.

tom hyle · 14th April 2005, 12:49 AM

The collectors' tale (weigh accordingly) is in line with that; the beaknosed ones that look like wayang puppets' heads almost are the ones for headtaking. On the other hand, there is variation between tribes, too. The head taking ones are called pinagas.

Naga Basuki · 14th April 2005, 04:00 AM

How about this one? Comments?

tom hyle · 14th April 2005, 04:11 AM

Now that's a classic pinagas, with a nice handle, since ye ask, and the "finger" (my own term) that I think you wrap with your index finger in the manner famous with a quillon, for control; believe me, it makes a big difference on the ones I've handled. Someone else can probably tell you what tribe.

Tim Simmons · 14th April 2005, 07:44 AM

Hello, Bontoc,thank you, which part of the Philippines do they inhabit,how varied are these axes?Tim

Battara · 14th April 2005, 02:02 PM

Federico is right on the money. The first one is Bontoc and the second is Kalinga. They and other Igorot tribes are in the central highlands in the middle north part of the island of Luzon. Nice Bontoc piece. The Kalinga piece I believe is a datu ceremonial piece with the bottom white brass ferrule missing along with parts of the yellow brass missing on the rest of the stem.

tom hyle · 14th April 2005, 02:04 PM

Luzon.
Extremely varied, in size and shape of both blade and handle, with similar forms to the convex edged ones occuring on other islands nearby, and shading over eventually into Naga dao.

Tim Simmons · 15th April 2005, 09:14 PM

Hello.Thats very helpful but I was hoping for a few more pictures to help get the feel of these axes.The Philippines, for a fairly small group of islands have an amazing range of weapons.I very much like the Panaba but I have only seen one for sale in the UK,it was good and alas the price was too high for me anyway.Tim

Conogre · 16th April 2005, 05:47 AM

Here's my contribution, Tim.
Simple, plain and fairly late manufacture.
Besides the obvious head taking attribution, the difference in cultural uses by shape becomes obvious when I see these referred to as "tools" because the tang arrangement wouldn't stand up for almost anything that I would use an axe for by US standards.
Mike

tom hyle · 16th April 2005, 01:50 PM

For the most part I see your point about these and other tangs in this regard. Some of the tangs themselves are quite sturdy at like 3/8" thick, but still short, no? and I don't know that the thicker ones were ever standard. Not only that, but tha amount of wood that fits inside that long ferule is not that much, and that can seem unsturdy (more at the blade than at the handle end, where the swept swell gives it decent strength). They handle well, and one can use one (in good shape) to cut briars and light vines for practice; if they're a tool I agree it'd be more machete than axe. I wonder about the more tooly back-curved one though; same tang? I know it doesn't seem a strong arrangement (I wouldn't design it and think it sturdy), but also some consideration must be given (as with thin swords, brass blades, thin African axes, etc.) to how flimsy a lot of old stuff seems to us now, and the degree to which traditional people were just much more appreciative of, and loving and careful toward their possessions than modernes seem to be. A nice feature in these axes? Some of them have a "shandigan" type reinforced edge.

Ian · 16th April 2005, 02:00 PM

Mike:

I think your example is also Bontoc, but with the concave rather than convex edge. Don't see many in this style around. Congrats.

Ian.

Conogre · 16th April 2005, 10:05 PM

Thanks Ian.....that was my basic assumption as to origin as well, while I sat here wondering as the discussion deepened.
Of course, it stands to reason that mine would end up being slightly odd (I sometimes feel that I have an entire collection of "almosts"**grin**).
I drool over the "fingered" hilt pieces whenever I see one as they always seem to have an elegant air to them, those with exceptionally thin and elongated heads in particular.
Is there any special significance to those?

Mike

13th April 2005, 07:01 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Philippine Axe Frenzy. These are far from common in the Uk so I was over the moon when I got one some years ago. A lot of you seem to known so much about Philippine arms almost to the name of the village of origin I was wondering if we could have a teach in.As long as it was not made recently Your cooperation would be greatly appreciated.Tim PS I love the roll of steel round the haft. Attached Images

14th April 2005, 04:00 AM	#5
Naga Basuki Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Big old machine shop/foundry/warehouse in Atlanta GA USA Posts: 51	How about this one? Comments? Attached Images

16th April 2005, 05:47 AM	#11
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Here's my contribution, Tim. Simple, plain and fairly late manufacture. Besides the obvious head taking attribution, the difference in cultural uses by shape becomes obvious when I see these referred to as "tools" because the tang arrangement wouldn't stand up for almost anything that I would use an axe for by US standards. Mike Attached Images

13th April 2005, 07:24 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Tim It looks like a Bontoc head hunters to me. Lew

13th April 2005, 07:58 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,031	Hi Tim: Lew is correct, I believe, in stating this axe comes from the Bontoc. I'm not sure whether it is a "head axe," implying a weapon used for beheading a victim, or more of a utility axe or tool. There are apparently distinctions, and one of my dealer acquaintances in Manila noted that the axes with convex edges (as your example has) are tools, while those with concave edges are weapons. I don't know how true this information may be because I have only heard it from a single source (although he is a well informed Filipino with many years of dealing in edged weapons). Ian.

14th April 2005, 12:49 AM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The collectors' tale (weigh accordingly) is in line with that; the beaknosed ones that look like wayang puppets' heads almost are the ones for headtaking. On the other hand, there is variation between tribes, too. The head taking ones are called pinagas.

14th April 2005, 04:11 AM	#6
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Now that's a classic pinagas, with a nice handle, since ye ask, and the "finger" (my own term) that I think you wrap with your index finger in the manner famous with a quillon, for control; believe me, it makes a big difference on the ones I've handled. Someone else can probably tell you what tribe.

14th April 2005, 07:44 AM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Hello, Bontoc,thank you, which part of the Philippines do they inhabit,how varied are these axes?Tim

14th April 2005, 02:02 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Federico is right on the money. The first one is Bontoc and the second is Kalinga. They and other Igorot tribes are in the central highlands in the middle north part of the island of Luzon. Nice Bontoc piece. The Kalinga piece I believe is a datu ceremonial piece with the bottom white brass ferrule missing along with parts of the yellow brass missing on the rest of the stem.

14th April 2005, 02:04 PM	#9
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Luzon. Extremely varied, in size and shape of both blade and handle, with similar forms to the convex edged ones occuring on other islands nearby, and shading over eventually into Naga dao.

15th April 2005, 09:14 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Hello.Thats very helpful but I was hoping for a few more pictures to help get the feel of these axes.The Philippines, for a fairly small group of islands have an amazing range of weapons.I very much like the Panaba but I have only seen one for sale in the UK,it was good and alas the price was too high for me anyway.Tim

16th April 2005, 01:50 PM	#12
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	For the most part I see your point about these and other tangs in this regard. Some of the tangs themselves are quite sturdy at like 3/8" thick, but still short, no? and I don't know that the thicker ones were ever standard. Not only that, but tha amount of wood that fits inside that long ferule is not that much, and that can seem unsturdy (more at the blade than at the handle end, where the swept swell gives it decent strength). They handle well, and one can use one (in good shape) to cut briars and light vines for practice; if they're a tool I agree it'd be more machete than axe. I wonder about the more tooly back-curved one though; same tang? I know it doesn't seem a strong arrangement (I wouldn't design it and think it sturdy), but also some consideration must be given (as with thin swords, brass blades, thin African axes, etc.) to how flimsy a lot of old stuff seems to us now, and the degree to which traditional people were just much more appreciative of, and loving and careful toward their possessions than modernes seem to be. A nice feature in these axes? Some of them have a "shandigan" type reinforced edge.

16th April 2005, 02:00 PM	#13
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,031	Mike: I think your example is also Bontoc, but with the concave rather than convex edge. Don't see many in this style around. Congrats. Ian.

16th April 2005, 10:05 PM	#14
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Thanks Ian.....that was my basic assumption as to origin as well, while I sat here wondering as the discussion deepened. Of course, it stands to reason that mine would end up being slightly odd (I sometimes feel that I have an entire collection of "almosts"grin). I drool over the "fingered" hilt pieces whenever I see one as they always seem to have an elegant air to them, those with exceptionally thin and elongated heads in particular. Is there any special significance to those? Mike