Some sort of naval saber?

blue lander · 15th May 2014, 07:06 PM

I just won the auction for this. The seller didn't have much to say about it other than that it was old, the grip was horn, and that it was possibly a marine saber. It's only 65cm long. Does anybody have any idea what it might actually be? I guess it's about the right length for a boarding saber and the grip does appear to be horn. I assume it's European.

RSWORD · 17th May 2014, 01:37 AM

What you have are the remnants of a Vietnamese Guom sword. It has a "habaki"(? ) at the forte like you see on Asian swords. The handle material is horn and possibly eve rhino. Is the guard copper plated? Many of these had copper guards with silver decoration. This one has a steel hand guard which is a bit different but probably indicative that this is a military sword as opposed to a court sword. I would venture a guess that this sword is early to mid 19th century.

RSWORD · 17th May 2014, 01:38 AM

The word I meant to say was tunkou not habaki.

Multumesc · 17th May 2014, 10:07 AM

Interesting sword.It seems to be in Asia.

blue lander · 18th May 2014, 05:10 PM

Thanks both, it does appear to indeed be a Guom sword. I read these were influenced by French style sabers hence the somewhat European features. I looked through google for other images of Guoms and they're all far more ornate. Ornate ones are apparently more commonly found outside Vietnam because they made for better souvenirs.

Jim McDougall · 23rd May 2014, 03:08 AM

I am inclined to agree that this is indeed a guom from Vietnam, and the European style hilt corresponds expectedly to the profound French influences there. The condition of the metal suggests this is an 18th century weapon modeled on French hangers and couteau de chasse of latter 18th.

Clearly this blade has been considerably shortened, and the rounded tip suggests intent for slashing cuts. The sabre itself probably Nguyen dynasty of that period, but the shortened blade and rounded tip suggest possible connections to the establishment of a navy there under the French and around end of the century, perhaps an ersatz dirk type weapon .

blue lander · 27th May 2014, 06:54 PM

It arrived in the mail today. My impressions:

The blade is extremely thick and heavy. It's 8mm thick at the base. It has no flex whatsoever. The steel's heavily pitted and the edge is all chewed up, but it looks like it's from blunt impact, perhaps hitting a nail or a rock, rather than blade on blade damage. It seems to taper naturally to its tip which I wouldn't expect if it was a cut down blade. That is unless the also ground the blade thinner towards the tip when they did it. The whole blade's a little crooked and twisted but I don't know if it was made that way or if it came that way through hard use.

The hilt is definitely horn. I attached some pictures of it from a few angles as illumated by a flashlight, but I don't see any signs of tubules or anything that would indicate it's rhino. I'm guessing it's goat horn that's been compressed into a flat shape?

Overall it reminds me a lot of a Prussian Faschinenmesser I have. Both have thick heavy blades and the edges on both are in similar condition like they were used for construction rather than fighting. I wonder if this was a similar tool/weapon designed for building fortifications and whatnot? There's no reason it couldn't have once been a full sized saber that was cut down for this kind of use. But to me it seems perfectly proportioned as it is rather than a resized saber.

15th May 2014, 07:06 PM	#1
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Some sort of naval saber? I just won the auction for this. The seller didn't have much to say about it other than that it was old, the grip was horn, and that it was possibly a marine saber. It's only 65cm long. Does anybody have any idea what it might actually be? I guess it's about the right length for a boarding saber and the grip does appear to be horn. I assume it's European. Attached Images

17th May 2014, 10:07 AM	#4
Multumesc Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Romania Posts: 202	Some sort of naval saber? Interesting sword.It seems to be in Asia.

27th May 2014, 06:54 PM	#7
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	It arrived in the mail today. My impressions: The blade is extremely thick and heavy. It's 8mm thick at the base. It has no flex whatsoever. The steel's heavily pitted and the edge is all chewed up, but it looks like it's from blunt impact, perhaps hitting a nail or a rock, rather than blade on blade damage. It seems to taper naturally to its tip which I wouldn't expect if it was a cut down blade. That is unless the also ground the blade thinner towards the tip when they did it. The whole blade's a little crooked and twisted but I don't know if it was made that way or if it came that way through hard use. The hilt is definitely horn. I attached some pictures of it from a few angles as illumated by a flashlight, but I don't see any signs of tubules or anything that would indicate it's rhino. I'm guessing it's goat horn that's been compressed into a flat shape? Overall it reminds me a lot of a Prussian Faschinenmesser I have. Both have thick heavy blades and the edges on both are in similar condition like they were used for construction rather than fighting. I wonder if this was a similar tool/weapon designed for building fortifications and whatnot? There's no reason it couldn't have once been a full sized saber that was cut down for this kind of use. But to me it seems perfectly proportioned as it is rather than a resized saber. Attached Images

17th May 2014, 01:37 AM	#2
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	What you have are the remnants of a Vietnamese Guom sword. It has a "habaki"(? ) at the forte like you see on Asian swords. The handle material is horn and possibly eve rhino. Is the guard copper plated? Many of these had copper guards with silver decoration. This one has a steel hand guard which is a bit different but probably indicative that this is a military sword as opposed to a court sword. I would venture a guess that this sword is early to mid 19th century.

17th May 2014, 01:38 AM	#3
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	The word I meant to say was tunkou not habaki.

18th May 2014, 05:10 PM	#5
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Thanks both, it does appear to indeed be a Guom sword. I read these were influenced by French style sabers hence the somewhat European features. I looked through google for other images of Guoms and they're all far more ornate. Ornate ones are apparently more commonly found outside Vietnam because they made for better souvenirs.

23rd May 2014, 03:08 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	I am inclined to agree that this is indeed a guom from Vietnam, and the European style hilt corresponds expectedly to the profound French influences there. The condition of the metal suggests this is an 18th century weapon modeled on French hangers and couteau de chasse of latter 18th. Clearly this blade has been considerably shortened, and the rounded tip suggests intent for slashing cuts. The sabre itself probably Nguyen dynasty of that period, but the shortened blade and rounded tip suggest possible connections to the establishment of a navy there under the French and around end of the century, perhaps an ersatz dirk type weapon .