Indian Pistols

Paul Duffy · 11th January 2017, 09:12 PM

Rajesh, thanks, I'll posy a photo showing th ewhole pistol.
Fernando, I'll also post some photos showing the lock area.
Oliver, many thanks for your comments.
Regards,Paul

rickystl · 13th January 2017, 05:25 PM

That is a very nice, and unusual pair of pistols. And obviously made in percussion (not converted). And the apparent date offer by Oliver would also confirm that. While the hammer styling may seem it bit unusual, I think it was intentionally done that way as part of the overall styling exercise. The mixture of European and Persian influences sure make for an interesting pair. And they appear in great condition. First class craftmanship. Yes, more pics as mentioned above would be great. Thanks for posting.

Rick

Pukka Bundook · 14th January 2017, 03:54 PM

Very nice indeed!

The locks and percussioning do seem to follow British style, as does the engraving, but such work was also seen on Persian work as Oliver states.

It would be interesting to see the interior of the lock, Plus the lock mortise if possible. That could tell us a lot!

Can't see well enough in the photos, but are the strikers detachable on these hammers?
Are there any signs of proofs on the barrel?
Again, very nice!

rickystl · 14th January 2017, 04:01 PM

I humbly second Pukka's request. Would be very interested in seeing the inside of the lock and mortice area.

Rick

Paul Duffy · 3rd February 2017, 11:20 PM

As promised I have attached more photos of the pistol, the inside of the lock, the hammer & mortise area, & the trigger guard.
I should have mentioned that there are no proof or view marks on or under the barrels, or any marks or stamps on the inside of the lock.Although the springs & tumblers seem to be well made.

On one pistol I have been able to remove the striker by removing the screw at the back of the hammer. One of the photos shows all the components. The screw in the other hammer is stuck.The striker can only ignite a percussion cap fixed to the nipple, however the set up is odd, & seems to be based on a pellet lock.

The iron trigger guard is engraved in a similar fashion to the lock plate, & you will see the pineapple finial to the trigger guard, which is attached in the usual way, a screw to the grip & a pin through the stock above the base of the pineapple.

In my first post I mentioned that the decoration seemed to have been "stuck on".This is incorrect, on closer inspection I can see hundreds of brass pins & brass pieces hammered into the stock. The thin brass pieces separate the lines of pins which make up the triangles & circles formed by the pins which are outlined in red.[I also have new lenses in my glasses!!]

I was confused by some repairs to the forend which have involve replacing damaged sections of stock with new wood & painting in a poor manner, some gold lines & decoration.

I am most grateful for your comments, as I am helping carry out some research on the pistols which will be published in the 2017 edition of Arms Cavalcade. The owner purchased the pistols over 30 years ago in Sydney.

Kubur · 4th February 2017, 08:44 AM

I see 1290/1873 for the date, for the rest I agree with Oliver (for the decoration and the text).
It should be a Persian pistol. I have seen some crude Afghan locks a bit similar to yours. Probably an attempt to imitate Persian models...
Some photos are missing to help you such as the whole butt, the other side of the pistol, the canon muzzle...
Best,
Kubur

BANDOOK · 4th February 2017, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Duffy

As promised I have attached more photos of the pistol, the inside of the lock, the hammer & mortise area, & the trigger guard.
I should have mentioned that there are no proof or view marks on or under the barrels, or any marks or stamps on the inside of the lock.Although the springs & tumblers seem to be well made.

On one pistol I have been able to remove the striker by removing the screw at the back of the hammer. One of the photos shows all the components. The screw in the other hammer is stuck.The striker can only ignite a percussion cap fixed to the nipple, however the set up is odd, & seems to be based on a pellet lock.

The iron trigger guard is engraved in a similar fashion to the lock plate, & you will see the pineapple finial to the trigger guard, which is attached in the usual way, a screw to the grip & a pin through the stock above the base of the pineapple.

In my first post I mentioned that the decoration seemed to have been "stuck on".This is incorrect, on closer inspection I can see hundreds of brass pins & brass pieces hammered into the stock. The thin brass pieces separate the lines of pins which make up the triangles & circles formed by the pins which are outlined in red.[I also have new lenses in my glasses!!]

I was confused by some repairs to the forend which have involve replacing damaged sections of stock with new wood & painting in a poor manner, some gold lines & decoration.

I am most grateful for your comments, as I am helping carry out some research on the pistols which will be published in the 2017 edition of Arms Cavalcade. The owner purchased the pistols over 30 years ago in Sydney.

THANKS FOR POSTING GOOD PICTURES,I LIKE THIS GUN,BUT AS SAID BY EXPERTS IT HAS MORE PERSIAN THAN INDIAN ,SO WE COULD PUT IT IN THE INDO-PERSIAN ERA,CHEERS

Pukka Bundook · 4th February 2017, 03:52 PM

By what I can see, the lock-work is very competently done and the sort of lock that would not surprise us or appear any way inferior on arms of European/British origin. Nice to see the stirrup on the tumbler.

Can't tell on the lock mortise, but may be a shade down on European inletting.
Very nice pistols!

11th January 2017, 09:12 PM	#1
Paul Duffy Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 31	Indian Pistols Rajesh, thanks, I'll posy a photo showing th ewhole pistol. Fernando, I'll also post some photos showing the lock area. Oliver, many thanks for your comments. Regards,Paul

3rd February 2017, 11:20 PM	#5
Paul Duffy Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 31	As promised I have attached more photos of the pistol, the inside of the lock, the hammer & mortise area, & the trigger guard. I should have mentioned that there are no proof or view marks on or under the barrels, or any marks or stamps on the inside of the lock.Although the springs & tumblers seem to be well made. On one pistol I have been able to remove the striker by removing the screw at the back of the hammer. One of the photos shows all the components. The screw in the other hammer is stuck.The striker can only ignite a percussion cap fixed to the nipple, however the set up is odd, & seems to be based on a pellet lock. The iron trigger guard is engraved in a similar fashion to the lock plate, & you will see the pineapple finial to the trigger guard, which is attached in the usual way, a screw to the grip & a pin through the stock above the base of the pineapple. In my first post I mentioned that the decoration seemed to have been "stuck on".This is incorrect, on closer inspection I can see hundreds of brass pins & brass pieces hammered into the stock. The thin brass pieces separate the lines of pins which make up the triangles & circles formed by the pins which are outlined in red.[I also have new lenses in my glasses!!] I was confused by some repairs to the forend which have involve replacing damaged sections of stock with new wood & painting in a poor manner, some gold lines & decoration. I am most grateful for your comments, as I am helping carry out some research on the pistols which will be published in the 2017 edition of Arms Cavalcade. The owner purchased the pistols over 30 years ago in Sydney. Attached Images

13th January 2017, 05:25 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	That is a very nice, and unusual pair of pistols. And obviously made in percussion (not converted). And the apparent date offer by Oliver would also confirm that. While the hammer styling may seem it bit unusual, I think it was intentionally done that way as part of the overall styling exercise. The mixture of European and Persian influences sure make for an interesting pair. And they appear in great condition. First class craftmanship. Yes, more pics as mentioned above would be great. Thanks for posting. Rick

14th January 2017, 03:54 PM	#3
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Very nice indeed! The locks and percussioning do seem to follow British style, as does the engraving, but such work was also seen on Persian work as Oliver states. It would be interesting to see the interior of the lock, Plus the lock mortise if possible. That could tell us a lot! Can't see well enough in the photos, but are the strikers detachable on these hammers? Are there any signs of proofs on the barrel? Again, very nice!

14th January 2017, 04:01 PM	#4
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	I humbly second Pukka's request. Would be very interested in seeing the inside of the lock and mortice area. Rick

4th February 2017, 08:44 AM	#6
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	I see 1290/1873 for the date, for the rest I agree with Oliver (for the decoration and the text). It should be a Persian pistol. I have seen some crude Afghan locks a bit similar to yours. Probably an attempt to imitate Persian models... Some photos are missing to help you such as the whole butt, the other side of the pistol, the canon muzzle... Best, Kubur

4th February 2017, 03:52 PM	#8
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	By what I can see, the lock-work is very competently done and the sort of lock that would not surprise us or appear any way inferior on arms of European/British origin. Nice to see the stirrup on the tumbler. Can't tell on the lock mortise, but may be a shade down on European inletting. Very nice pistols!