Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 15th June 2014, 08:02 AM   #1
KLUNGKLUNG
Member
 
KLUNGKLUNG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 24
Default Bahari blade for comment

Dear all,

I got this small Bahari blade with excellent Lar gangsir pamor (correct me if I am wrong) just recently but it was dressed up in a semi-new fantasy style Minang sarong with a Panjang handle! Surprisingly well balanced pamor but differ a bit on both sides of the blade and towards the tip ( slewah and / or dwiwarna?). Never saw a Bahari blade with such a clear pamor, extraordinary? The size is small with 25,5 cm ( without peksi). I am puzzled by it and wonder which sarong is proper for it.
The brown sheath ( sampir looks like Gowa / old Makassar style?) could do? Have exchanged the Tapa Kudah handle for the small ( but slightly to fat) Jawa Demam ivory handle. Better? Any comments / suggestions welcome.
Attached Images
      
KLUNGKLUNG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2014, 01:34 AM   #2
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 6,444
Default

Beautiful pamor!
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2014, 08:27 AM   #3
Jean
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,389
Default

Has anybody seen another specimen of a bahari blade with such a complex pamor? This reminds me of the balinese kris recently posted by Henri and with a similar pamor pattern Lar Gangsir.
I only have one bahari/ anak alang blade (from Malaysia?) with a common pamor pattern which was surprisingly revealed after warangan.
Regards
Attached Images
 
Jean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2014, 11:16 PM   #4
ganjawulung
Member
 
ganjawulung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 979
Send a message via Yahoo to ganjawulung
Default Bahari with pamor? Should be careful....

Dear Klungkung,

Keris panjang, and also the much sought ‘bahari keris’ from Sumatra, is usually pamorless. Though not all pamorless. The iron they used, usually blackish gray iron. Or all black iron (in Jawa, they used to refer it as "hurab iron"). Sumatran people refer to it as "malela iron". You may see, at some peculiar Lampung traditional weapon, "badik kelingi", the very specific south sumatran badik with its triangular form of blade. Kelingi, usually all black...

Should be careful, if you get ‘keris panjang’ or bahari keris with pamor. This what my sumatran friend said.

Ganjawulung
ganjawulung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2014, 02:47 PM   #5
Gustav
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 923
Default

It's impossible for me to tell from pictures if it's an old, neglected blade, or a new, artificially aged. Yet old Keris Bahari with this Pamor do exist. I know of three blades, one of them old for sure, one which looks old and one which I have seen "in person". They all have more complete Greneng and blade shape than this one. Becouse of the state of preservation I cannot say about the quality of pamor work, yet it seems to be better at least on two of the other blades.

Actually I always was tempted to see these (old ones) as products of one workshop, becouse of the rarity of this pamor and superficial similarity of the blades. I also think, none of them is older then the very end of 19th cent/beginning 20th cent. Of course, it's an oppinion of a not well informed person.

I don't think, these blades were made by Minang - your scabbard is Minang. A Saribulan would look better.
Gustav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2014, 11:48 PM   #6
ganjawulung
Member
 
ganjawulung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 979
Send a message via Yahoo to ganjawulung
Default Largangsir Pamor?

Dear Klungkung,

May I combine images of your interesting Sumatran keris, please? Incidentally six months ago, I was taking pictures at a keris exhibition at National Monument (Monas), Jakarta, a Bugis keris with beautiful largangsir pamor too. I was reminded of this Bugis keris, when you upload similar pamor of your keris panjang. Or at least, almost similar pamor....

Recently, I have seen quite a lot of bugis kerises with complicated types of pamor, such largangsir, blarak, etc.... Just for your comparison.

Ganjawulung
Attached Images
 
ganjawulung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2014, 01:20 PM   #7
ganjawulung
Member
 
ganjawulung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 979
Send a message via Yahoo to ganjawulung
Default Largangsir Pamor

Another angle of comparison....
Attached Images
 
ganjawulung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2014, 03:39 PM   #8
Jean
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,389
Default

Pak Ganja,
Very similar pamor pattern & iron colour indeed, from the same maker? What do you know about this Bugis kris?
According to the book Senjata Pusaka Bugis this pamor exists in Sulawesi and is locally called Tebba Bunga and I have one old blade with this pamor, see pictures before and after warangan.
Regards
Attached Images
   
Jean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2014, 04:30 PM   #9
ganjawulung
Member
 
ganjawulung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 979
Send a message via Yahoo to ganjawulung
Default La Kurisi

Dear Jean,

Really nice Bugis keris, Jean. If I were asked to choose, which keris Bugis better? The one I took photo at Monas Exhibition, or yours? No doubt, will choose yours. Although only from the photos, it appears that yours is old Bugis keris, and indeed with twist technique (in Bugis this technique called, "la kurisi") of pamor "tebbabunga" or javanese version "largangsir".

In my opinion, IMHO, the one I took photo at the National Monument was not too old bugis keris. Although I did not say it was very recent. But your keris, if I look at the appearance of the image, is quite similar with the one I saw in the book "Senjata Pusaka Bugis" (Bugis Heritage Weapons) by Ahmad Ubbe.

Among the Bugis people, IMHO, such prestige motive is believed to be a symbol of 'salvation' (asalamakeng, Bgs). Also from the meaning of five luks, in Bugis called "Lamba Lima" (five curves). For the Bugis people believed to be a symbol of "hope".

Just simply sharing. Hopefully useful.

Ganjawulung
Attached Images
 
ganjawulung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2014, 04:54 PM   #10
Gustav
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 923
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung

In my opinion, IMHO, the one I took photo at the National Monument was not too old bugis keris. Although I did not say it was very recent. But your keris, if I look at the appearance of the image, is quite similar with the one I saw in the book "Senjata Pusaka Bugis" (Bugis Heritage Weapons) by Ahmad Ubbe.

Ganjawulung


Actually the Keris posted by Ganjawulung is also to be found in "Senjata Pusaka Bugis", pages 203/204. I must say, the similarity to the initial Keris Bahari escapes me.
Gustav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2014, 06:33 PM   #11
ganjawulung
Member
 
ganjawulung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 979
Send a message via Yahoo to ganjawulung
Default Not the same...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav
Actually the Keris posted by Ganjawulung is also to be found in "Senjata Pusaka Bugis", pages 203/204. I must say, the similarity to the initial Keris Bahari escapes me.



I don't think so, Gustav. So much different. The one on page 203, is a photo of Bugis Masterpiece -- a Lombok heritage, but in the form of Gowa keris, named "Pejanggik-Gowa II". The very special Bugis heritage. Please look at the difference....

Ganjawulung
Attached Images
 
ganjawulung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2014, 06:37 PM   #12
Gustav
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 923
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung
I don't think so, Gustav. So much different. The one on page 203, is a photo of Bugis Masterpiece -- a Lombok heritage, but in the form of Gowa keris, named "Pejanggik-Gowa II". The very special Bugis heritage. Please look at the difference....

Ganjawulung


That's page 197 in my book.
Gustav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2014, 06:55 PM   #13
ganjawulung
Member
 
ganjawulung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 979
Send a message via Yahoo to ganjawulung
Default Polojiwa

Dear Gustav,

You are right, the same blade as shown on the page you mentioned. But not all the kerises shown, are old samples. But the two special ones, "Pejanggik-Gowa I" and "Pejanggik-Gowa II" of course they are the very special heritage. Not comparable to this one....

I took this picture at Monument Nasional, Jakarta last year. A "polojiwa" (three luks) of 'tebbabunga' (largangsir) blade....

Ganjawulung
Attached Images
 
ganjawulung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2014, 06:59 PM   #14
ganjawulung
Member
 
ganjawulung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 979
Send a message via Yahoo to ganjawulung
Default Pejanggik

... And of course, not comparable to this special one. The Pejanggik-Gowa, one of the best Lombok heritage in the form of Bugis or Gowa keris....

Ganjawulung
Attached Images
 
ganjawulung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2014, 07:01 PM   #15
Gustav
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 923
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung
But not all the kerises shown, are old samples.



Dear Ganjawulung,

that's true.
Gustav is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:54 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.