Pestle ?

GIO · 15th July 2023, 11:57 AM

A friend presented me this item. I suppose it could be a small (9,5 cm) pestle, made of buffalo horn. I hope that more informed friends can identify its origin from the style of decorations. Thanks in advance !

GIO · 15th July 2023, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

A friend presented me this item. I suppose it could be a small (9,5 cm) pestle, made of buffalo horn. I hope that more informed friends can identify its origin from the style of decorations. Thanks in advance !

Photos published soon

GIO · 15th July 2023, 01:29 PM

Here they are

David · 15th July 2023, 08:54 PM

Do you mean a pestle as in "mortar & pestle"? Because i am pretty sure it is not that kind of pestle for a number of reasons.

fernando · 16th July 2023, 01:26 PM

Surely GIO means something else; right, GIO ?

.

GIO · 16th July 2023, 04:09 PM

Thanks for your attention, David and Fernando. No, I didn't mean something else, I really cannot imagine what it is. It has no hole at the end, and it is rather small to be a hilt, so I imagined it could be a small pestle.

Sajen · 16th July 2023, 11:23 PM

Hello Gio,

I think you mean such betel crusher pestles like in the picture, these both pestles I have recently bought but they have not arrived yet. Both are from Lombok. These I know from other examples I've handled and don't think that your small handle is from a Lombok betel crusher but could be from one of another region.

But could be from a small pisau also.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 16th July 2023, 11:28 PM

I think you mean pestle handle, correct?
Looking at your pictures I have a feeling that your handle is East Javanese or Madurese, but just my feeling.

GIO · 17th July 2023, 11:54 AM

Yes, it could be an unfinished (it has not yet the hole) betel crusher hilt. As to the origin, I remember having seen already the figure with the two "eyes", arms and hands, but I don't remember where.
Thanks again for your help

GIO · 17th July 2023, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Gio,

I think you mean such betel crusher pestles like in the picture, these both pestles I have recently bought but they have not arrived yet. Both are from Lombok. T
Regards,
Detlef

Hello Detlef
Nice items and good carvings. All seem really old.

Best regards Gio

Sajen · 17th July 2023, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

Yes, it could be an unfinished (it has not yet the hole) betel crusher hilt. As to the origin, I remember having seen already the figure with the two "eyes", arms and hands, but I don't remember where.
Thanks again for your help

Ah, now I understand completely, the handle has no hole for a tang. It shows patination so it was most probably in use. But a handle which isn't meant to fit a tang! And only this small piece of horn wouldn't be very good to crush betel nuts IMVHO.

So when we summarize, it was most probably in use (patina), it has no hole for a tang, it's small and very likely a handle. I think you have to investigate in this direction..

I have no idea yet, sorry.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 17th July 2023, 03:16 PM

A talisman or jimat??

Sajen · 17th July 2023, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

Hello Detlef
Nice items and good carvings. All seem really old.

Hi Gio,

Thank you!

From time to time I get offered nice items from Indonesia, so this two old betel crushers and the wooden Bali/Lombok handle. Two nice old taji ayam are in this parcel as well.

Best regards,
Detlef

Bob A · 19th July 2023, 04:06 AM

Horn does not make a very effective crushing tool, so I'd not opt for pestle.

The end looks rather like a truncated cone; it might fit into some sort of socketed apparatus, the nature of which I couldn't guess.

Peter B. · 24th August 2023, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Gio,

Two nice old taji ayam are in this parcel as well.

Best regards,
Detlef

Hello Detlef,

can you show us the taji ayam?

Thanks and best regards
Peter

Sajen · 24th August 2023, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter B.

Hello Detlef,

can you show us the taji ayam?

Thanks and best regards
Peter

Hello Peter,

We have had a thread special for this items, see here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=Taji+ayam

Until now I don't know why it got closed, I would be glad to post them there, I have a third one before. Maybe the mods can open this thread again and I would be glad to show them there!

I don't want to hijack this thread and I would be reluctant to start a new thread about taji ayam!
Anyway, here two pic. of my three boxes.

Best regards,
Detlef

Peter B. · 25th August 2023, 11:11 AM

Hello Detlef,

Thanks for the pictures. These are very nice boxes.
Since I bought the book Kotak Taji by van Donk, I've been also looking for such a beautiful piece.

Best regards
Peter

Sajen · 25th August 2023, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter B.

Thanks for the pictures. These are very nice boxes.
Since I bought the book Kotak Taji by van Donk, I've been also looking for such a beautiful piece.

Hello Peter,

By me is the book on my wish list!

Like Alan wrote in the given thread they are hard to come by and most of the time very expensive, sadly.

Best regards,
Detlef

15th July 2023, 11:57 AM	#1
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 310	Pestle ? A friend presented me this item. I suppose it could be a small (9,5 cm) pestle, made of buffalo horn. I hope that more informed friends can identify its origin from the style of decorations. Thanks in advance !

15th July 2023, 01:29 PM	#3
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 310	pestle Here they are Attached Images

16th July 2023, 04:09 PM	#6
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 310	Pestle ? Thanks for your attention, David and Fernando. No, I didn't mean something else, I really cannot imagine what it is. It has no hole at the end, and it is rather small to be a hilt, so I imagined it could be a small pestle.

16th July 2023, 11:23 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,491	Hello Gio, I think you mean such betel crusher pestles like in the picture, these both pestles I have recently bought but they have not arrived yet. Both are from Lombok. These I know from other examples I've handled and don't think that your small handle is from a Lombok betel crusher but could be from one of another region. But could be from a small pisau also. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

15th July 2023, 08:54 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,025	Do you mean a pestle as in "mortar & pestle"? Because i am pretty sure it is not that kind of pestle for a number of reasons.

16th July 2023, 01:26 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Surely GIO means something else; right, GIO ? .

16th July 2023, 11:28 PM	#8
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,491	I think you mean pestle handle, correct? Looking at your pictures I have a feeling that your handle is East Javanese or Madurese, but just my feeling.

17th July 2023, 11:54 AM	#9
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 310	Yes, it could be an unfinished (it has not yet the hole) betel crusher hilt. As to the origin, I remember having seen already the figure with the two "eyes", arms and hands, but I don't remember where. Thanks again for your help

17th July 2023, 03:16 PM	#12
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,491	A talisman or jimat??

19th July 2023, 04:06 AM	#14
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 411	Horn does not make a very effective crushing tool, so I'd not opt for pestle. The end looks rather like a truncated cone; it might fit into some sort of socketed apparatus, the nature of which I couldn't guess.

25th August 2023, 11:11 AM	#17
Peter B. Member Join Date: May 2021 Location: Germany Posts: 41	Hello Detlef, Thanks for the pictures. These are very nice boxes. Since I bought the book Kotak Taji by van Donk, I've been also looking for such a beautiful piece. Best regards Peter