Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 4th February 2005, 06:16 AM   #1
Alam Shah
Member
 
Alam Shah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
Default Identification of keris hilt

Hi, I would like to know more about this keris handle.
I've looked up in many keris book, but could not find an exact match. Any ideas?
Attached Images
   
Alam Shah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2005, 07:13 AM   #2
rasdan
Member
 
rasdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 323
Default

Hi Alam shah,

I dont know much of this stuff, but i had seen a quite similar keris hilt in a Malaysian book. Raja Muda may remember the title of the book. Theres also one in (i think) Van Duuren's latest book. Perhaps other foroumite have any ideas?
Attached Images
 
rasdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2005, 07:41 AM   #3
rahman
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 84
Default

Looks like the handle on a keris sajen, aka keris majapajit?
rahman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2005, 09:08 AM   #4
Raja Muda
Member
 
Raja Muda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Posts: 100
Default Keris Hilt

The picture Pak Rasdan has is from a book on keris published by the Malaysian Handicrafts Development board. I think I have one too. Well, it's stated there as Keris Majapahit, though the details on the hilt is far more elaborate than the ones you see on other Keris Sajen. What we need now is for a Javanese to help lah!
Raja Muda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2005, 09:47 AM   #5
Alam Shah
Member
 
Alam Shah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
Default

Thank you Raja Muda and rasdan. I had this piece for the last 15 years, just want to know more.
Alam Shah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2005, 02:53 PM   #6
Sang Keris
Member
 
Sang Keris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 46
Send a message via MSN to Sang Keris
Default

a pair of majapahit ceremonial keris... just for example....


.
Attached Images
  
Sang Keris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2005, 04:47 PM   #7
Alam Shah
Member
 
Alam Shah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
Default

Sang Keris,
Thanks for your example, but different from my type....
Any comments on my piece?
Alam Shah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2005, 09:24 PM   #8
empu kumis
Member
 
empu kumis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 17
Default

Hello Kerislovers,

especially on this kind of "keris" we have a lot of stories (donggeng) but no written records nor pictures on sculptures. The story this pieces has been used for the ceremony of "bersih Desa" or for offerings could not be verified. The most examples coming to musea all over the world was in the 19th century. There is no evidence for an old age at all. So far i know there was no metallurgical research or archaeological proof. Ther has been so many speculation and the topic goes on and on. Its an never ending fruitless story.

I know and have seen with my own eyes this pieces are still forged as almost massproduction as other new kerisses too. Sometimes I read about to give them an appraisal for a special tangguh ? Just Nonsense !! The small shops still selling new keris sajen because many people belief in their value as talisman !!!
I would be very thankful if somebody of you fellow forumites could tell me more. But please something i could have a proof.

Regards

empu kumis
empu kumis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2005, 01:33 AM   #9
Sang Keris
Member
 
Sang Keris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 46
Send a message via MSN to Sang Keris
Default

well , i mean

i mean that's the basic model of keris sajen , shahrial...
Sang Keris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2005, 01:44 AM   #10
nechesh
Member
 
nechesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 940
Default

I am a little confused about the first two examples here. Are these hilts one piece with the blade like keris sajen are or are they seperate? Aside from these hilts the wilah look like a regular keris blade. Regardless of their origins these hilts do look interesting and if indeed the oldest examples of these keris is only 19thC as Empu Kumis suggests they still qualify as an ethnographic item worthy of study and collection.

Empu Kumis wrote: "I know and have seen with my own eyes this pieces are still forged as almost massproduction as other new kerisses too. Sometimes I read about to give them an appraisal for a special tangguh ? Just Nonsense !! The small shops still selling new keris sajen because many people belief in their value as talisman !!!"

But E.K., it is precisely that power of people's belief which makes an item a valid talisman.

Last edited by nechesh : 5th February 2005 at 03:01 AM.
nechesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2005, 02:22 AM   #11
Mans
Member
 
Mans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: East Java
Posts: 137
Send a message via MSN to Mans Send a message via Yahoo to Mans
Thumbs up Keris Sajen

hi dear all,

I look a beautifull keris Sajen was posted in this thread, nice keris. Good sculptures hilt. The Keris Sajen have many kind of carved hilt. But, these have a same type, that is a man.

Like Empu Kumis said, that the story this pieces has been used for the ceremony of "bersih Desa" or for offerings could not be verified. So that, the keris like this is not for Talisman. It just a prerequirement for the ceremonny. So that many smith in every period of kingdom was producted this keris, in fact, still production by now.
After the ceremonial or event, this keris can be throw away in the river or hide away at wet rice field. The meaning is, keris Sajen can't be called as a Keris Mojopahit or Tangguh Majapahit.

If need to try to know how old the keris like that, we can look an iron and pamor work, so that we can to give them an appraisal for tangguh. But, for the hilt carved, we just can speculation. That is old or new made.

Regards,
Mans
p.s : another kind of Keris Sajen hilt
Attached Images
  
Mans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2005, 04:48 AM   #12
Alam Shah
Member
 
Alam Shah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
Default entire piece identification

nechesh,
That's what confuses me as well. It's not a keris sajen as per se. It hilt looks like a different piece than the blade. The hilt cannot be removed and the blade is a typical keris blade unlike a keris sajen type, which is one piece.

I'll take more pictures and post it here, once the piece is returned after upacara Suro' (traditional javanese cleaning).

Last edited by Alam Shah : 6th February 2005 at 01:38 PM.
Alam Shah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2005, 04:04 PM   #13
Alam Shah
Member
 
Alam Shah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
Default Picture of the entire blade...for comments

Attached is the blade for comment...
Attached Images
 
Alam Shah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2005, 04:19 PM   #14
Alam Shah
Member
 
Alam Shah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
Default Close up...

All comments, good or bad are welcomed.
Attached Images
 
Alam Shah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2005, 12:54 AM   #15
rahman
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 84
Default

Dear Alam Shah

My 2 bits worth from a beginner:

1. The metal in the hilt is different from the blade, so it was not forged as a single piece. See if there are any weld marks where the hilt and the blade meets.

2. What does the inscription say? Quranic or talismanic?

3. The gentle undulations of the luk suggest a Palembang origin?
rahman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2005, 07:06 AM   #16
Alam Shah
Member
 
Alam Shah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
Default

Thanks rahman for your response,
1.) I'll take a closer picture near the hilt. As far as i can see, there are no weld marks.
2.) It's some kind of talismanic characters. I'll let you know what it's meant for later.
3.) Palembang?.... Interesting.

Last edited by Alam Shah : 16th February 2005 at 01:54 PM.
Alam Shah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2005, 03:31 PM   #17
Alam Shah
Member
 
Alam Shah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
Default Esoteric use...

Dear rahman,

The talismanic inscription on one side... (reference from Kitab Aji Mantra Guna), which translated to be "untuk menangkap maling". Accordingly, if a thief stole something from a place which is guarded by this talisman, the person would not be able to find his way out.

The inscription on the other side (reference from Kitab Al-Aufaq), it is to protect the wearer from sihir/sirep ,(a type of spell to lull or put one to sleep) and to prevent the wearer from falling asleep while on guard.
(Insya allah bisawab).
Alam Shah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2005, 03:36 PM   #18
rahman
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 84
Default

Dear Alam Shah

Pls take a look at this: ( edited , sorry Rahman links to active auctions are not allowed. )

See any resemblance to your hilt? I wonder if yours is hollow and the peksi fits into it, rather than being welded to it.

Is the inscription in Jawi or Kawi? Can we see a close-up of the inscription?

This is quite obviously a talisman (tangkal/penangkal). Phew! I thought you have a keris used by dukun/bomoh -- that would be mighty stuff.

Last edited by Rick : 16th February 2005 at 04:55 PM.
rahman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2005, 04:02 PM   #19
Alam Shah
Member
 
Alam Shah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
Default

> See any resemblance to your hilt?
Similar, but not the same.
> I wonder if yours is hollow and the peksi fits into it, rather than being welded to it.
I believe so.

> Is the inscription in Jawi or Kawi?
What is Kawi...

> Can we see a close-up of the inscription?
Yup, will put up once I take the shots.
Alam Shah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2005, 05:22 PM   #20
Jan
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 8
Default

Hello, and sorry for coming in late on this one.

The picture shown by Pak Rasdan in the second posting of this thread looks VERY similar to a single metal keris handle that I purchased in Yogya about 4 years ago. I would be happy if Pak Rasdan or Raja Muda wcould remember the title of the book it is in, just to see if it says anything interesting about this particular handle.

My first attempt at taking digital pictures of my handle didnīt work out yet, I will try again later and just give you a quick comment on my version:

It is rather newly made, probably using modern tools.
It is hard to tell from Pak Rasdanīs picture above, but in this version, the old man has very furry eyebrows and a long beard down his chest. Especially face and beard are far more detailed in comparison with other keris sajen that I have seen.
The beard is partly seperated from the chest by three holes drilled through its base. In my case, these were apparently drilled through from left to right - the holes are much more precise on the left side, while the right still shows tiny bits of metal in the rim were the drill came out. I noticed this before buying it, so I never really thought it to be an old handle.
The inside of the hole for the peksi also looks professionally made using modern tools - just too precise and too smooth at the bottom of the hole.
Also, it is not as deep as other peksi holes I have seen, so maybe it would need more fixation than the traditional method - welding ???

Judging from this I would assume that both the hilt of Alam Shah`s keris and my version of it are actually modern-made single hilts that can be either normally attached or maybe even welded to a keris blade to "style it" into a keris sajen.

I will see if I get around to taking some pictures later.
Jan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2005, 11:53 PM   #21
Alam Shah
Member
 
Alam Shah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
Default Inscriptions on the blade...both sides

On both sides...
Attached Images
  
Alam Shah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2005, 03:21 AM   #22
Alam Shah
Member
 
Alam Shah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
Default Another example...

Jan,
Let's have a look at your piece...
Alam Shah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2005, 02:52 PM   #23
Jan
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 8
Default

And here it is.
Attached Images
   

Last edited by Jan : 20th February 2005 at 03:38 PM.
Jan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2005, 05:52 AM   #24
rasdan
Member
 
rasdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 323
Default

Hi guys,

IMHO these hilts are of recent manufacture. I recently seen another one in Kg. Baru Antique shop KL. It looks down right similar to the example in the book. In Alam Shah's example, i think its an old blade fitted later on with the hilt. The inscription also looks recent as well. I'm not sure if the inscription is Koranic but if it is, it rather ironic to have it on a blade with a putut hilt which is "unislamic".
rasdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2005, 06:59 AM   #25
rahman
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 84
Default

I think Alam Shah has said the inscription is talismanic rather than Quranic.

Alam -- what exactly does it say? Is it in Malay?
rahman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2005, 05:50 AM   #26
Alam Shah
Member
 
Alam Shah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
Default My Conclusion...?

After considering the comments...below is my opinion.

> Rasdan : IMHO these hilts are of recent manufacture
I think so too. But mine is at least 15 years only. (That's how long I've kept it).

What I believe.
Mine is a 2-piece keris (although the hilt cannot be removed). It's not a keris sajen.
The piece is used as a protective talisman, in Malay/Indonesia, by a spiritual healer. To use against disturbance from malevolent spirits and such.
To add functionality, the inscription was added at a later stage.

- Why this particular hilt is used? I don't know.
But i guess, it's just a symbol that the keris is for talismanic use...

> rahman: what exactly does it say? Is it in Malay?
No, it's not in malay. See the images that I had posted. It's more symbolic rather than an incantation.

I appreciate the comments from all who had participated. Thank you.
Alam Shah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2005, 07:55 AM   #27
rahman
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 84
Default

> rahman: what exactly does it say? Is it in Malay?
No, it's not in malay. See the images that I had posted. It's more symbolic rather than an incantation.


Sorry, my Jawi is 'karat; (rusty). If it's not in Malay, what exactly does it say? Can u transliterate? and what is that kitab you used to decipher it?

Quote:
The talismanic inscription on one side... (reference from Kitab Aji Mantra Guna), which translated to be "untuk menangkap maling". Accordingly, if a thief stole something from a place which is guarded by this talisman, the person would not be able to find his way out.


This reminds me of what my late father-in-law said. A thief came into his house one day, but somehow could not find his way out. My wife said he might have had a keris... sorry, I had World War III with my in-laws decades ago.
rahman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:17 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.