Knife from the Maldives

drdavid · 6th December 2005, 10:40 AM

Hi again
I bought this in the Maldives about 20 years ago. I was told at the time that it was used for (amongst other things) writing in traditional script on leaves and that was why the tip was curled. I am curious if anyone has anything to offer on the piece. I know it is not strictly a fighting weapon so am not sure if I am out of line posting here. It is about 24 cms (10") long.The inlays seem to be silver, the handle ivory or bone. The blade has old rust patina with a little pitting. Speaking of which, I come from bayonet collecting background. With them the ideal is minimal cleaning, leave the patina as is, but I noticed from reading a few dozen posts on this board that some cleaning/polishing seems ok with the mostly asian and african swords I see posted here, is that a correct or incorrect conclusion .

VANDOO · 6th December 2005, 03:07 PM

I HAD NOT HEARD ANY STORIES ABOUT WRITEING ON LEAVES WITH THEM BUT THEY ARE THE TRADITIONAL FORM OF DAGGER USED IN THE MALDIVES.
YOURS IS THE FIRST ONE I HAVE SEEN WITH THE TIP LIKE THAT I WOULD SAY IT IS DAMMAGED UNLESS SOMEONE DID IT INTENTIONALY SO THEY COULD USE IT FOR SOME PURPOSE. I TEND TO BOUBT ANYONE WOULD DAMMAGE A NICE DAGGER JUST TO WRITE ON LEAVES OR WHATEVER WHEN A SMALL TOOL COULD BE EASILY FASHIONED FROM SOMETHING ELSE EVEN WOOD.
ON THE GOOD ONES THE MATERIAL USED ON THE POMEL IS MADE FROM SPERM WHALE TOOTH, BONE WAS NOT USED AT ALL ON ANY OF THE EXAMPLES I HAVE SEEN. THEY MAKE SOME FOR SALE TO TOURISTS THAT ARE COVERED IN BLACK CORAL OR MOTHER OF PEARL CURRENTLY. THE GOOD OLD ONES ARE VERY EXPENSIVE TO BUY IN THE MALDIVES AND DIFFICULT TO FIND TODAY. MOST TOURISTS COME ON THE CRUISE SHIPS THAT STOP THERE SO IF ONE IS IN PORT OR EXPECTED SOON PRICES ARE UP. CONGRADULATIONS ON A SELDOM SEEN KNIFE!
I MOSTLY SAY TO CLEAN OFF ANY ACTIVE RUST IS OK BUT TO GLEAN AGRESIVELY ENOUGH TO REMOVE PATINA OR TO GO DOWN TO BARE METAL FOR A ETCH TO SEE IF THERE IS A GOOD PATTERN IS A MORE DIFFICULT CALL. PERSONALY I PREFER TO JUST USE OIL OR WAX TO STABILIZE A PATINATED BLADE OR ONE BLACK WITH OLD STABLE RUST OF COURSE THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO EVERY RULE

.

Justin · 7th December 2005, 12:18 AM

Very nice knife! , I have to agree with Vandoo though,I think that the point was damaged.

I think cleaning is definately a good thing but you dont want to go too far,as mentioned the active red rust is the most important thing to clean off.

Heres a contemporary piece that I have with MOP pieces all over it,like Vandoo mentioned:

Rick · 7th December 2005, 12:53 AM

After a really careful look a the spine of the blade I'm not so sure it's inadvertent damage .

drdavid · 7th December 2005, 04:20 AM

I have to say that when you look at the 'curly' tip it does not look like it was accidentally damaged, it really looks like it was deliberately shaped to make that S-bend but I appreciate you guys are much more expert than I am.

Robert · 7th December 2005, 05:41 AM

Drdavid,
Is there any way you could post a better picture of the knife looking down on the spine and showing the tip? One with out a shadow would help alot. I, like Rick am not sure if it is damaged or made like this on purpose and a better picture might help in deciding.

Robert

drdavid · 7th December 2005, 06:03 AM

Here are a couple more photos, tricky getting rid of shadows and not using flash. Thanks for the interest in this topic
David

Rick · 7th December 2005, 03:56 PM

IMO to get a bend like that in a blade that thick you would need super strength and a 1/4" thick steel plate to ram the point into .

Also , if my eyes do not deceive me the left side of the blade is arrow straight right up to the first bend whereas the right side seems to taper in a little ; and what's up with the recurve ?
If a blade gets bent it's usually in one direction , not an S curve .

I still think it's intentional ; if not someone would have already tried to straighten it on an anvil .

Mark · 7th December 2005, 07:07 PM

You can get a bend like that by trying to pry something with the tip of the knife (like the lid of a paint can or a chocolate tin), especially if you try and bend it back the same way. How soft is the metal of the blade? If it is fairly hard, I would be wrong, as the tip would have snapped off rather than bent.

I have to say that it does look pretty deliberate, though. The very tip has been brought exactly into line again with the spine, for example.

Rick · 7th December 2005, 07:37 PM

And if you hold an edge of paper against each side of the blade the uneven taper becomes more apparent .
Pretty strange though I will admit .

Tim Simmons · 7th December 2005, 08:05 PM

I have no Knowledge of these knives but I would agree with Rick that the blade has been made the way it is. My first thoughts were of a utility knife with an adaption for opening shellfish

. Tim

MABAGANI · 7th December 2005, 09:26 PM

.

Justin · 8th December 2005, 01:41 PM

If it was bent in order to accomplish a task, say writing on leaves or openening shellfish ,I would think that it would make more sense to have a tool specially made for the purpose rather than having an ivory hilted side knife with a bent tip that would be difficult to sharpen.{purely my opinion}

This goes to show how little we know about some of these things and I definately think that some more research is in order.

6th December 2005, 10:40 AM	#1
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 369	Knife from the Maldives Hi again I bought this in the Maldives about 20 years ago. I was told at the time that it was used for (amongst other things) writing in traditional script on leaves and that was why the tip was curled. I am curious if anyone has anything to offer on the piece. I know it is not strictly a fighting weapon so am not sure if I am out of line posting here. It is about 24 cms (10") long.The inlays seem to be silver, the handle ivory or bone. The blade has old rust patina with a little pitting. Speaking of which, I come from bayonet collecting background. With them the ideal is minimal cleaning, leave the patina as is, but I noticed from reading a few dozen posts on this board that some cleaning/polishing seems ok with the mostly asian and african swords I see posted here, is that a correct or incorrect conclusion . Attached Images

7th December 2005, 12:18 AM	#3
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	Very nice knife! , I have to agree with Vandoo though,I think that the point was damaged. I think cleaning is definately a good thing but you dont want to go too far,as mentioned the active red rust is the most important thing to clean off. Heres a contemporary piece that I have with MOP pieces all over it,like Vandoo mentioned: Attached Images

7th December 2005, 06:03 AM	#7
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 369	Here are a couple more photos, tricky getting rid of shadows and not using flash. Thanks for the interest in this topic David Attached Images

7th December 2005, 09:26 PM	#12
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	. Last edited by MABAGANI; 7th December 2005 at 09:35 PM. Reason: post on wrong thread

6th December 2005, 03:07 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAD NOT HEARD ANY STORIES ABOUT WRITEING ON LEAVES WITH THEM BUT THEY ARE THE TRADITIONAL FORM OF DAGGER USED IN THE MALDIVES. YOURS IS THE FIRST ONE I HAVE SEEN WITH THE TIP LIKE THAT I WOULD SAY IT IS DAMMAGED UNLESS SOMEONE DID IT INTENTIONALY SO THEY COULD USE IT FOR SOME PURPOSE. I TEND TO BOUBT ANYONE WOULD DAMMAGE A NICE DAGGER JUST TO WRITE ON LEAVES OR WHATEVER WHEN A SMALL TOOL COULD BE EASILY FASHIONED FROM SOMETHING ELSE EVEN WOOD. ON THE GOOD ONES THE MATERIAL USED ON THE POMEL IS MADE FROM SPERM WHALE TOOTH, BONE WAS NOT USED AT ALL ON ANY OF THE EXAMPLES I HAVE SEEN. THEY MAKE SOME FOR SALE TO TOURISTS THAT ARE COVERED IN BLACK CORAL OR MOTHER OF PEARL CURRENTLY. THE GOOD OLD ONES ARE VERY EXPENSIVE TO BUY IN THE MALDIVES AND DIFFICULT TO FIND TODAY. MOST TOURISTS COME ON THE CRUISE SHIPS THAT STOP THERE SO IF ONE IS IN PORT OR EXPECTED SOON PRICES ARE UP. CONGRADULATIONS ON A SELDOM SEEN KNIFE! I MOSTLY SAY TO CLEAN OFF ANY ACTIVE RUST IS OK BUT TO GLEAN AGRESIVELY ENOUGH TO REMOVE PATINA OR TO GO DOWN TO BARE METAL FOR A ETCH TO SEE IF THERE IS A GOOD PATTERN IS A MORE DIFFICULT CALL. PERSONALY I PREFER TO JUST USE OIL OR WAX TO STABILIZE A PATINATED BLADE OR ONE BLACK WITH OLD STABLE RUST OF COURSE THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO EVERY RULE .

7th December 2005, 12:53 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	After a really careful look a the spine of the blade I'm not so sure it's inadvertent damage .

7th December 2005, 04:20 AM	#5
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 369	I have to say that when you look at the 'curly' tip it does not look like it was accidentally damaged, it really looks like it was deliberately shaped to make that S-bend but I appreciate you guys are much more expert than I am.

7th December 2005, 05:41 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Drdavid, Is there any way you could post a better picture of the knife looking down on the spine and showing the tip? One with out a shadow would help alot. I, like Rick am not sure if it is damaged or made like this on purpose and a better picture might help in deciding. Robert

7th December 2005, 03:56 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	IMO to get a bend like that in a blade that thick you would need super strength and a 1/4" thick steel plate to ram the point into . Also , if my eyes do not deceive me the left side of the blade is arrow straight right up to the first bend whereas the right side seems to taper in a little ; and what's up with the recurve ? If a blade gets bent it's usually in one direction , not an S curve . I still think it's intentional ; if not someone would have already tried to straighten it on an anvil .

7th December 2005, 07:07 PM	#9
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	You can get a bend like that by trying to pry something with the tip of the knife (like the lid of a paint can or a chocolate tin), especially if you try and bend it back the same way. How soft is the metal of the blade? If it is fairly hard, I would be wrong, as the tip would have snapped off rather than bent. I have to say that it does look pretty deliberate, though. The very tip has been brought exactly into line again with the spine, for example.

7th December 2005, 07:37 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	And if you hold an edge of paper against each side of the blade the uneven taper becomes more apparent . Pretty strange though I will admit .

7th December 2005, 08:05 PM	#11
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	I have no Knowledge of these knives but I would agree with Rick that the blade has been made the way it is. My first thoughts were of a utility knife with an adaption for opening shellfish . Tim

8th December 2005, 01:41 PM	#13
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	If it was bent in order to accomplish a task, say writing on leaves or openening shellfish ,I would think that it would make more sense to have a tool specially made for the purpose rather than having an ivory hilted side knife with a bent tip that would be difficult to sharpen.{purely my opinion} This goes to show how little we know about some of these things and I definately think that some more research is in order.