Java kris for discussion

naga82 · 28th October 2016, 06:07 AM

Hi all

I would like to post this java kris. I added a similar blade to the photo. one i think is very much older than the other.
Would love to hear your comments.?

David · 29th October 2016, 04:19 PM

Hi Naga and welcome to the forum.
I think you forgot to actually add you photos...

naga82 · 30th October 2016, 05:13 AM

Oops yes missed the upload button.
I will try again.

naga82 · 31st October 2016, 12:55 AM

Dont understand why the photos are not comming through?
3rd time lucky maybe.

Rick · 31st October 2016, 01:37 AM

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13631

David · 3rd November 2016, 08:06 PM

Naga, you double posted on this so i removed you second upload. Please keep in mind that as a new member your posts are moderated so they do not appear until they are viewed and approved by a moderator. Sometimes that takes a moment or two.

Marcokeris · 3rd November 2016, 11:19 PM

Nice kerises and painted sarong

Jean · 4th November 2016, 09:49 AM

Hello Naga82,
Typical contemporary Madurese blades?
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 4th November 2016, 12:43 PM

Yep

Nice sunggingan work, and a pretty unusual pendok

David · 4th November 2016, 03:48 PM

I was noting the pendok Alan and i don't believe i've seen one quite like it before. And the sunggingan work features wayang as well. Would there be some particular significance to dress so heavily decorated with wayang characters?

GIO · 4th November 2016, 06:01 PM

The blade without hilt seems to have a rather unusual dapor towards the tip. The blade was bent and then re-aligned ? Or it is because of the angle of the photo ?

A. G. Maisey · 4th November 2016, 09:25 PM

The blue base colour of the wrongko indicates that it is the prerogative of a Penewu, the leader of 1000 men in the old days.

The use of wayang characters can be seen as a personal decorative preference on the one hand, or it can be seen as a connection to the wayang. These characters are the Punakawans, the moral lessons that are taught through the wayang are to traditional Javanese people something like the moral lessons taught through scripture, so if you have these Punakawans right there where they can be clearly seen, it triggers a thought process that generates the entire story that involves the Punakawans. Javanese people love the Punakawans, and seeing them will generate a nice feeling, maybe a feeling of pleasant anticipation. This feeling will of course transfer to the person wearing that display, and perhaps make his socialising a little easier.

David · 4th November 2016, 10:01 PM

Thanks Alan. I do understand that the wayang are seen in this light, but seeing it on BOTH wrongko AND the pendok made me wonder if perhaps the previous owner had a particular association with the wayang theatre. Your explanation was most helpful.

David · 4th November 2016, 10:03 PM

BTW Naga, you hilt is oriented the wrong way. It should be twisted 180º in the opposite direction.

A. G. Maisey · 5th November 2016, 04:14 AM

When we talk about associations with wayang, we're really only talking about the dalang, the puppet master, yes, they do wear a keris during the performance, but I doubt very much that one would wear a sunggingan, it would be more likely to be a pusaka, or if not that, just an ordinary dress keris, nothing as fancy as this sunggingan.I feel that perhaps a collector may have had this one put together for his own enjoyment, and hit upon the idea of the wayang motif in the pendok.

David · 5th November 2016, 02:39 PM

Thanks Alan. Makes sense.

28th October 2016, 06:07 AM	#1
naga82 Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 8	Java kris for discussion Hi all I would like to post this java kris. I added a similar blade to the photo. one i think is very much older than the other. Would love to hear your comments.?

31st October 2016, 12:55 AM	#4
naga82 Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 8	Photos java kris Dont understand why the photos are not comming through? 3rd time lucky maybe. Attached Images

31st October 2016, 01:37 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Posting Photos http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13631

29th October 2016, 04:19 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	Hi Naga and welcome to the forum. I think you forgot to actually add you photos...

30th October 2016, 05:13 AM	#3
naga82 Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 8	Oops yes missed the upload button. I will try again.

3rd November 2016, 08:06 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	Naga, you double posted on this so i removed you second upload. Please keep in mind that as a new member your posts are moderated so they do not appear until they are viewed and approved by a moderator. Sometimes that takes a moment or two.

3rd November 2016, 11:19 PM	#7
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Nice kerises and painted sarong

4th November 2016, 09:49 AM	#8
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Naga82, Typical contemporary Madurese blades? Regards

4th November 2016, 12:43 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Yep Nice sunggingan work, and a pretty unusual pendok

4th November 2016, 03:48 PM	#10
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	I was noting the pendok Alan and i don't believe i've seen one quite like it before. And the sunggingan work features wayang as well. Would there be some particular significance to dress so heavily decorated with wayang characters?

4th November 2016, 06:01 PM	#11
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 310	The blade without hilt seems to have a rather unusual dapor towards the tip. The blade was bent and then re-aligned ? Or it is because of the angle of the photo ?

4th November 2016, 09:25 PM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	The blue base colour of the wrongko indicates that it is the prerogative of a Penewu, the leader of 1000 men in the old days. The use of wayang characters can be seen as a personal decorative preference on the one hand, or it can be seen as a connection to the wayang. These characters are the Punakawans, the moral lessons that are taught through the wayang are to traditional Javanese people something like the moral lessons taught through scripture, so if you have these Punakawans right there where they can be clearly seen, it triggers a thought process that generates the entire story that involves the Punakawans. Javanese people love the Punakawans, and seeing them will generate a nice feeling, maybe a feeling of pleasant anticipation. This feeling will of course transfer to the person wearing that display, and perhaps make his socialising a little easier.

4th November 2016, 10:01 PM	#13
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	Thanks Alan. I do understand that the wayang are seen in this light, but seeing it on BOTH wrongko AND the pendok made me wonder if perhaps the previous owner had a particular association with the wayang theatre. Your explanation was most helpful.

4th November 2016, 10:03 PM	#14
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	BTW Naga, you hilt is oriented the wrong way. It should be twisted 180º in the opposite direction.

5th November 2016, 04:14 AM	#15
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	When we talk about associations with wayang, we're really only talking about the dalang, the puppet master, yes, they do wear a keris during the performance, but I doubt very much that one would wear a sunggingan, it would be more likely to be a pusaka, or if not that, just an ordinary dress keris, nothing as fancy as this sunggingan.I feel that perhaps a collector may have had this one put together for his own enjoyment, and hit upon the idea of the wayang motif in the pendok.

5th November 2016, 02:39 PM	#16
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	Thanks Alan. Makes sense.