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Old 17th January 2013, 01:14 AM   #1
Ganja Iras
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Default old ivory hilt for share

dear all ,

i presenting my ivory hilt for comment in this forum ...
really hope will get some more info about the figure of this hilt
regards,

ganja iras
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Old 17th January 2013, 01:33 PM   #2
David
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Very interesting hilt Ganja Iras. I haven't seen one like it before and i'm not sure i can add much information. Of course the variation to be found in figural hilts seems to be endless, though women seem to be a much rarer subject for keris hilts. I have seen the so-called faceless "durga" hilts and the wadon hilts, but this is not of that style or variety. My first impression is that the subject and pose seems very Western to me. It makes me wonder if the carver was working from some bit of European art to base this figure on. The modesty of this pose, with all "private" parts covered, seems unusual for this culture.

Last edited by David : 18th January 2013 at 12:31 PM. Reason: forgot a word...
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Old 17th January 2013, 05:05 PM   #3
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Very nice Bali/Lombok hilt but I am not sure if it is indeed very old or antique, the hilt seems too erotic imho.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 17th January 2013, 05:05 PM   #4
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Indeed very interesting. I agree with David that as the piece immediately struck me as European in look. I believe it was during the early 1900s that more and more European artists moved to Bali; perhaps this piece is a product of that influx? Or possibly it is a later piece geared towards tourists - but I personally don't get that impression from this piece.
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Old 17th January 2013, 09:19 PM   #5
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I like the hilt-cup. nice work.

But the hilt... not my cup of tea.
no expression in the face, strange pose and arms seem out of proportion.
I cannot imagine this being old or indiginous.
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Old 18th January 2013, 04:55 AM   #6
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She reminds me a little of the mermaid from the Copenhagen harbor with just a tad more modesty.
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Old 18th January 2013, 04:56 PM   #7
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I also must confess that the figure itself doesn't really do anything for me. That being said, I do very much like the color as well as the patina of the ivory - particularly on the head.

The overall shape of the hilt, as well as the laminations visible on the sides, makes me think it's carved from some kind of whale tooth.

Thanks very much for sharing!


- Thor
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Old 18th January 2013, 08:02 PM   #8
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I also thought this ivory was marine in origin Thor. As for the patina and color, it is so hard to tell age based on this as it is fairly easy to apply it to ivory from my experience.
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Old 19th January 2013, 03:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
I also thought this ivory was marine in origin Thor. As for the patina and color, it is so hard to tell age based on this as it is fairly easy to apply it to ivory from my experience.

Sadly true, David. Makes it harder for us to determine true age.

On the other hand, I also love the selut.
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Old 20th January 2013, 04:58 AM   #10
Ganja Iras
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hi guys ,

thank you very much for the comments and your opinion about this hilt.
here i give you more info about it...:
- material : marine ivory
- selut / mendak (in lombok we call it angkop ) : new made silver.

as a new in keris community ,i only know about that description for the hilt..
not about the age and figure .

thanks again....
kind regards ,

ganja iras
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Old 20th January 2013, 06:35 AM   #11
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Thank you David - I think I have mistakenly used the word 'patina' here, in an inappropriate way. I didn't mean to imply it was due to significant age of the piece, I just wanted to refer to the darker areas under the chin, for instance. Would 'shade' or maybe 'glow' or something else be more correct?

English is not my native tongue, so I guess I'm sometimes prone to accidentally use words, unaware of their correct or full meanings. Sorry for the confusion!

Personally, I have a sweet spot for darker more "glowing" ivory. Either due to years of handling or tea-dying, it doesn't matter so much to me. Maybe it's because I see so much of the pearly white, modern touristy stuff at my work. I feel the same way about bone. Btw. if anybody has a reference to a description of tea-dying of these materials, I'd love to read about it?


All the best, - Thor
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Old 20th January 2013, 02:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Koch
Thank you David - I think I have mistakenly used the word 'patina' here, in an inappropriate way. I didn't mean to imply it was due to significant age of the piece, I just wanted to refer to the darker areas under the chin, for instance. Would 'shade' or maybe 'glow' or something else be more correct?

No Thor, patina is patina and i would definitely say this piece has some. But here it seems to have been applied more quickly for effect than allowed to develop of a long period of handling use. There are ways to do this along with staining the ivory for color to give the over all impression of age.
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Old 21st January 2013, 06:31 PM   #13
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Agreed and thanks for clarifying!


- Thor
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Old 6th February 2020, 06:36 AM   #14
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I want to share a rather unusual ivory handle from Surakarta for claryfication.
It is shown in the pictured book and texting says: 'cat eaten by a snake' even if the pic shows a rather doggy head?
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Old 6th February 2020, 05:40 PM   #15
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Nice example. I have seen this odd form before somewhere. Yes, i am not certain about the description in the book. It doesn't quite look like a cat to me. In any case i would be curious to understand the meaning behind this symbolism. Perhaps there is a folktale that applies here.
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Old 7th February 2020, 04:46 AM   #16
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The rendering shows a cat if I look at the small almost hidden ears. Mine clearly shows doglike ears. Anyone else having a clue?
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Old 7th February 2020, 08:33 PM   #17
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Question : what is a keris hilt?!

1. something attached to a keris to serve as a hilt or...

2. something that is made with the purpose to serve as hilt for a keris?!

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Old 9th February 2020, 06:38 AM   #18
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Maybe someone can enlight me about the pamor involved. Is there more then one pamor (dwiwarna?) or do I look at a (worn) kind of Toya mambeg or karawelang?
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Old 9th February 2020, 07:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul B.
do I look at a (worn) kind of Toya mambeg or karawelang?


Yes, I think so. Congrats for the rare hilt also.
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Old 9th February 2020, 04:30 PM   #20
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I would like to have an hilt like your Paul ...and keris too
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Old 9th February 2020, 05:48 PM   #21
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Thanks for the comments.
Good quality scabbard and pendok but I need to replace the mendak (missing and / or broken stones).
From the former collector Dr. Lameijer...does it ring a bell ?
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Old 9th February 2020, 05:52 PM   #22
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Schraegerlines are very clear. So 'gading', elephant's ivory.
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Old 9th February 2020, 07:24 PM   #23
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IMHO very nice timoho gayaman, pendok ....and also mendak is nice (also without stones). Great hilt <3
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Old 12th February 2020, 03:33 PM   #24
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Cleaned and upgraded the mendak with artificial 'stones' for less than an Euro.
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