Kris #4

punal · 15th December 2005, 02:36 AM

Provenance and age pls.?
Handle is a combination of brass and bronze.

Sword's Dimensions:
OAL: 23"
Blade: 19 1/2"
Width: 1"
Thickness: 9mm

nechesh · 15th December 2005, 02:59 AM

Sorry to persist on this one Punal, but here is the Oxford dictionary definition of provenance as it is general used in the collector world:
a record of ownership of a work of art or an antique, used as a guide to authenticity or quality : the manuscript has a distinguished provenance.
How can we in the forum provide you with such a record?

punal · 15th December 2005, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

Sorry to persist on this one Punal, but here is the Oxford dictionary definition of provenance as it is general used in the collector world:
a record of ownership of a work of art or an antique, used as a guide to authenticity or quality : the manuscript has a distinguished provenance.
How can we in the forum provide you with such a record?

I understand the meaning of provenance alright professor Nechesh! You don't need you to keep reiterating it on my face! I did what you've told me yesterday, didn't I not? are my postings not according to your taste, still?
I posted this swords per someone elses request, and, I also wanted to know something about this swords before I store them. You will be a perfect candidate for moderator. . .I guarantee you that. they don't see what you see. . .

nechesh · 15th December 2005, 04:49 AM

Punal, i really meant no offense nor do i expect you or anyone else to ever do what i tell them to. I made my recommendation about posting one kris at a time for your benefit, not mine, as i think it would have become really confusing to know just which kris we were talking about. And why you choose to continue to misuse the word provenance if you do indeed understand it's meaning really is your own business. I am just looking for clarity and trying to understand exactly what it is you are looking for. I'm not trying to get in your face and i could care less whether your posts were "to my tastes". Actually i have been enjoying your swords and look forward to the dicussion that will come from them. Still, you won't get provenance from me.

Andrew · 15th December 2005, 04:57 AM

Let's take it easy, please, guys.

punal · 15th December 2005, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

Punal, i really meant no offense nor do i expect you or anyone else to ever do what i tell them to. I made my recommendation about posting one kris at a time for your benefit, not mine, as i think it would have become really confusing to know just which kris we were talking about. And why you choose to continue to misuse the word provenance if you do indeed understand it's meaning really is your own business. I am just looking for clarity and trying to understand exactly what it is you are looking for. I'm not trying to get in your face and i could care less whether your posts were "to my tastes". Actually i have been enjoying your swords and look forward to the dicussion that will come from them. Still, you won't get provenance from me.

sorry andrew but i need to answer this back! you mentioned yesterday to
create each sword a a single thread, that's what I did! is origin and age very hard to understand? I don't need the whole sword manuscript to understand what provenance mean? that's fine! i'm not forcing anybody answer my questions now,am I?

Bill · 15th December 2005, 05:50 AM

I think Cato's theory would be Sulu. Looks like an old one to me. Having several that are quite old, you should be able to compare and age them better then those that just see pics; hope you give your opinion after others give thiers. My guess would be around 1800, but maybe earlier, and I would not rule out Indonesia for origin.

Battara · 15th December 2005, 06:39 AM

I don't think Nechesh meant any offense.

Now on this puppy, I'm thinking possibly circa 1800, Mindanao, possibly Maguindanao.

Ian · 15th December 2005, 03:05 PM

Jose:

Why Mindanao rather than Sulu? Are you going by the hilt, blade, or both?

Ian.

Eddie Lastra · 15th December 2005, 08:12 PM

Was wondering, is the pommel on this kris considered the horse hoof type or is this another type?

Battara · 16th December 2005, 04:43 AM

Ian I was going by the hilt, ganga, and scabbard, although Sulu did cross my mind due to the front section of the ganga. Ignoring the hilt for the moment, do you think Sulu?

Eddie, I would not consider this a "hoof" type pommel.

Ian · 16th December 2005, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Ian I was going by the hilt, ganga, and scabbard, although Sulu did cross my mind due to the front section of the ganga. Ignoring the hilt for the moment, do you think Sulu?

Perhaps the blade is Sulu, although it is on the heavy side, and probably older than the hilt and scabbard. The dress looks Mindanao.

15th December 2005, 02:36 AM	#1
punal Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 91	Kris #4 Provenance and age pls.? Handle is a combination of brass and bronze. Sword's Dimensions: OAL: 23" Blade: 19 1/2" Width: 1" Thickness: 9mm Attached Images Last edited by punal; 15th December 2005 at 03:17 AM.

15th December 2005, 02:59 AM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Sorry to persist on this one Punal, but here is the Oxford dictionary definition of provenance as it is general used in the collector world: a record of ownership of a work of art or an antique, used as a guide to authenticity or quality : the manuscript has a distinguished provenance. How can we in the forum provide you with such a record?

15th December 2005, 04:49 AM	#4
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Punal, i really meant no offense nor do i expect you or anyone else to ever do what i tell them to. I made my recommendation about posting one kris at a time for your benefit, not mine, as i think it would have become really confusing to know just which kris we were talking about. And why you choose to continue to misuse the word provenance if you do indeed understand it's meaning really is your own business. I am just looking for clarity and trying to understand exactly what it is you are looking for. I'm not trying to get in your face and i could care less whether your posts were "to my tastes". Actually i have been enjoying your swords and look forward to the dicussion that will come from them. Still, you won't get provenance from me.

15th December 2005, 04:57 AM	#5
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Let's take it easy, please, guys.

15th December 2005, 05:50 AM	#7
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	I think Cato's theory would be Sulu. Looks like an old one to me. Having several that are quite old, you should be able to compare and age them better then those that just see pics; hope you give your opinion after others give thiers. My guess would be around 1800, but maybe earlier, and I would not rule out Indonesia for origin.

15th December 2005, 06:39 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I don't think Nechesh meant any offense. Now on this puppy, I'm thinking possibly circa 1800, Mindanao, possibly Maguindanao.

15th December 2005, 03:05 PM	#9
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,039	Jose: Why Mindanao rather than Sulu? Are you going by the hilt, blade, or both? Ian.

15th December 2005, 08:12 PM	#10
Eddie Lastra Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Livermore, CA Posts: 3	Was wondering, is the pommel on this kris considered the horse hoof type or is this another type?

16th December 2005, 04:43 AM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Ian I was going by the hilt, ganga, and scabbard, although Sulu did cross my mind due to the front section of the ganga. Ignoring the hilt for the moment, do you think Sulu? Eddie, I would not consider this a "hoof" type pommel.